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TMobile is kicking old Android phones off their network in January because vendors have abandoned the hardware and they no longer get security updates. Android's model of forcing you to buy new hardware every few years to get security updates is broken. tmonews.com/2020/12/t-mobile-w

Imagine if your ISP kicked your laptop off the Internet because Microsoft stopped providing it security updates. Imagine having to buy a new laptop every 2-3 years just so you could get updates. Phones are just small computers, they shouldn't have special rules.

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@kyle If this applies to these devices even when they're not running Android, that would be a real pain - the OnePlus One is still one of the best devices to run Ubuntu Touch on as a daily driver.

@jfred I don't know how Tmobile would know which OS is running, and I doubt they'd add that kind of nuance to their policy.

@kyle @jfred How do they know which device it is in the first place? Can you look up that information somewhere if you know the IMEI?

@fnord @kyle @jfred Yup, there are websites where you can look up the information of a device (brand, model) based on their IMEI

@kyle @jfred baseband computer is running its own OS and it probably can read identifying information about the device which really should not be exposed to the baseband computer, but they likely do it for some weird compatibility scheme

that's my best guess as to "how"

@kyle In the early 2000s, I worked in a university NOC on a software that would identify PCs that were infected with malware (mostly Blaster at the time) and cut those machines off the network until the users had fixed them.
The relevant difference here is obviously the fact that the users had enough control over their systems to actually be able to fix the problem.

@fnord @kyle It's about ToS. In corp network you have your standards and even the fact of being non-compliant with standards is ToS violation. ISP may cut your subscriber's line if you violate ToS (eg detected malicious activity/abuse) but not proactively because they suspect you may do it due to using unpatched devices.

@fnord @kyle On the other hand they may still cut your line if your DTE is non-compliant. Eg. vodafone won't even allow connecting unbranded docsis DTE

@kyle 1st thought of mine: Why Microsoft? They could use Linux resp. LineageOS. And hopefully more and more Linux on mobiles. But then I remembered UEFI and thought you might be right. I know you meant PCs were far away from phones. I don'f agree in that.

@kyle I *think* this explains why my Galaxy Note 2 suddenly stopped connecting to the network last year.

@kyle Where revenue streams are tied to device sales, and existing-device support is an ongoing uncompensated cost, this is a rational decision on the part of businesses.

What's Purism's approach to cashflow if not device sales, service subscriptions, advertising, or surveillance, the four standards?

@dredmorbius Purism's approach is tied to its Social Purpose, which allows us to put our ethics at a higher priority than "increasing shareholder value" compared to a traditional C Corp.

@kyle Thanks, though mission and purpose aren't cashflow generators.

C-Corps can also revert or be sold, as appears to have occurred with Ello (I'm uncertain what the story is, but following a very loud public benefit orientating, things got vewwy vewwy qwiet after the founders were uninstalled, and distinctly opaque).

Purism does have service offerings, e.g., the rather premium-priced SIM / mobile-resale service.

I'm just getting more clued in to the inherent traps of technology pricing models, and why dark patterns (original AT&T, IBM, Oracle, Microsoft, Red Hat, Google, Facebook, ...) are so prevalent. It's what cost and revenue structures dictate.

Or look at the failures: Osborne, Wang, DEC, Cray, SGI, Palm, Sun, every commercial Linux distro not named "Red Hat". Most hit a point where revenues couldn't fund the next development stage. Yahoo shows that the monetised eyeballs can glaze over as well.

Somehow there's got to be recurring revenue. I'm watching with interest, I don't quite see it. Selling durable widgets, eventually everyone's got s sufficiently familiar, sufficiently performant, sufficiently useful, and not self-evidently booby-trapped-and-tripwired widget. Though as the niche entrant, that might take a while. Premium power-user market, maybe faster readily than otherwise though.

And I can understand not spilling the secret sauce if you do have this figured, but I'm scratching my head, as cats do....

@dredmorbius Business model is similar to Apple's but with our ethics: sell things people are willing to pay for (premium hardware and services) to fund things people aren't as willing to pay for (FOSS development).

@dredmorbius Our market is everyone, not just tech-literate, because everyone deserves privacy, security, and freedom. Customers prioritize those three legs of the stool differently and you might be surprised how many non-tech-literate folks are happy laptop customers. Like w/ laptops, the phone market mostly starts with a FOSS core who values freedom first, and will expand outward to everyday folks who value privacy or security over freedom.

@kyle That's heartening to hear, I hope that core customer base does grow.

Any word on tablets?

@dredmorbius I typically can't comment on the potential for future hardware or revisions of current hardware :)

@kyle You're no fun!

This is my now 3y.o. gripe / feature request.

ello.co/dredmorbius/post/lqgtw

9-10in. (230--250mm) device, folio 6-row bluetooth keyboard, case folds for in-lap keyboarding, 8--10 hr battery. Runs Linux, browser, email, bookreader, and a robust shell userland. Storage expandable to at least 128 GB, if not higher (iPad goes to 1TB last I checked)

Android and iOS both fail to deliver joy.

The vendor relationship for a decent keyboard really is key.

I'm also looking at Pine. You and them seem to be the market.

@kyle The logitech adaptable keyboard shown has pretty poor ergodynamics, BTW.

@kyle Addenda: Termux has been the one App for Android that does not precisely suck. It's a long way from a full Linux distro, but remains the most useful single tool on the platform.

Both Android and iOS are taking steps to make shell environments less viable. Another reason both are non-starters.

@kyle And as I was mentioning abut Termux: it an no longer be installed/updated via Google Play Store:

wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux_Go

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2

As I'm looking at bookreaders, this is a huge strike against the Onyx Boox (Android 10).

Remarkable2 is promising but inexplicably comes with ony 8 GB onboard storage, non-expandable. I have > 36 GB of documents I'd like acess to (text, excluding audio or video), and anticipate significantly more. Storage is cheap. Being chained to a media server, whether my own or third-party, is suboptimal.

@kyle is Apple any different? (Honest question, I don't watch their ecosystem closely.)

@isagalaev Apple tends to support iPhones with software updates for *much* longer.

@kyle one of the phones in that news is a 6-year Sony Xperia. I think it's considered pretty old. (Which in my view is still not the reason for T-Mobile to selectively disable devices from connecting, it's totally lame and hostile.)

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