Hans-Christoph Steiner @eighthave@librem.one

@taketwo I would love to see a leak of the GMS certification process, GMS Test Suite (GTS) and related policies. Some of the things that it covers can be gleaned from the websites of companies that provide GMS certification as a service, for example https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/gms-certification-is-it-really-necessary-for-android-devices/

@taketwo I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if it violates the DMA. But I can say that the facts are pretty clear and they do not support Google's claim made at the DMA compliance workship. Google requires OEM pass "GMS Compliance" aka "GTS" which reviews all apps the OEM includes by default, e.g. an app store.

@santiago @ilumium I also believe that's true. The mobile apps are the key way to keep the product's (e.g. the users) eyes staring at screens so they can serve ads to them. Ads are hooked into Google's Android offerings as well. If they lose market share there, they lose ad revenue.

@researchbuzz 10% of turnover sounds high, but consider that Apple and Google are making at least 40% profit margins on their mobile platforms. So EU take 10%, then they still have 30% profit margins, which is still absurdly good. It is no wonder they are fighting the DMA.

@santiago @ilumium hmm, I don't think that's entirely true. Google makes a lot of money at very high profit margins from Google Play. They are not DMA compliant, they just have a very different strategy than Apple. #Android started how being open source to attract developers, so Google built their monopoly upon a more open platform. To do so, they've mastered dark patterns, nudging, and security as monopoly enforcement integrated into the best tech in key areas (e.g. search).

@haubles @andydavies @neil thanks, I've read through those already, and it is still difficult for me to say what data about deb.debian.org Fastly actually keeps and for how long. Here are the policies of some other Debian mirrors, which are much simpler but perhaps leave out a couple key details like what log format they use.

* https://ftp.lysator.liu.se/datahanteringspolicy.txt
* https://plug-mirror.rcac.purdue.edu/info.html
* https://mirror.fcix.net/policy/
* https://mirror.ossplanet.net/

Feels a little funny to be sympathic to #Google's point of view in the #DMA compliance workshop when some of the advertising industry lobbyists ask questions. From what I've seen, Google is less crappy than the average ad tech company when it comes to privacy, so I really hope the DMA does not open us up to more crappy ad tech companies.

@LeoBistmans interesting to hear, do you get any feedback or errors?

So maybe #PlayServices is a special case here, maybe not. But all of the apps that #Google requires to be in the bundle do not require special privileges, so can easily be built into Android devices in a way where they are easily uninstallable, e.g. disabled and deleted. I'm thinking Maps, Gmail, etc.

#DigitalMarketsAct

After 2018, #Google stopped publishing data about malware coming via sideloading. Today in the #DMA workshop they made big claims that sideloading is much more likely to be malware. Since they are making claims based on that, they should again release that publicly.

https://transparencyreport.google.com/android-security/overview

#DigitalMarketsAct

@f15h ‭XIII.‬ ‭Art. 6(3)‬ ‭B.1‬ ‭23.‬‭ ...Google‬‭ Android‬‭ allows‬‭ users‬‭ to‬‭ uninstall‬‭ apps‬‭ by:‬ ‭(i)‬‭ fully‬‭ deleting‬‭ apps‬‭ that‬‭ are‬‭ downloaded‬‭ or‬‭ pre-installed‬‭ in‬‭ a‬‭ Google‬‭ Android‬‭ device's‬‭ user‬ ‭partition;‬‭ and‬‭ (ii)‬‭ disabling‬‭ apps ‬‭in ‬‭a ‬‭Google‬‭ Android‬‭ device's ‬‭system‬‭ partition‬‭ such‬‭ that‬‭ they‬ ‭are returned into an uninstalled state.‬‭

#Google says #PlayServices is not part of the OS but then do not allow users to actually uninstall it. At the same time, they say that they won't let people download it and install it on other AOSP-based systems like Amazon Fire. We know this kind of thing works since people are downloading Play Services from places like APKMirror.

@f15h this is their claim to the European Commission today in the #DMA compliance workshop that is going on right now https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/events-poolpage/alphabet-dma-compliance-workshop-2024-03-21_en

It is probably also detailed in their "non-confidential" DMA compliance report:
https://storage.googleapis.com/transparencyreport/report-downloads/pdf-report-bb_2023-9-6_2024-3-6_en_v1.pdf