@kyle @lunduke except they're still a fully proprietary software company. They "love" Linux and open source like a tapeworm loves a healthy digestive system.

@kyle @lunduke all those keen (and highly paid) "open source advocates" are being paid, 100%, out of the spoils of user exploitation by proprietary software.

@lightweight @lunduke It's easy to forget that IBM was once seen as MS was 20 years ago and Google is now. I'm unclear how the MS in your example is different from the IBM of the spraypaint Tux era. They hired Linux developers from proceeds came from proprietary mainframe software and services.

Once difference is at the time the Linux community was desperate for a giant in its corner so they were more willing to embrace what before then was the original evil 800lb gorilla.

@kyle @lunduke true. Now Microsoft is trying a different (bolder) approach from IBM - they're engaging in EEE. They're hoping to co-opt open source (and kill Free Software in the process by casting so much shade on it) by using a few key technologies (like Github, Azure, and Active Directory) to lock people into platforms where they profit, regardless of whether people use FOSS or proprietary.

@kyle @lunduke in the intervening years, there're now "foundations" that ostensibly represent FOSS communities (in reality they have only a very tenuous grasp on representation) which can be "bought out" by rich proprietary corporate interests. This results in psychological and financial dependencies that can be used as leverage and eventually control. That's the Embrace part.

@kyle @lunduke as ever, most of it is marketing. And that takes a lot of $ which MS has.

@lightweight @lunduke I'd argue that the most successful "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" model currently in practice is Open Core https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/some-thoughts-open-core

@kyle @lunduke I agree that Open Core is an insidious and reprehensible model. I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the mercenary view promoted by Tom Preston-Werners in his "Open Source (Almost) Everything"... It's possible to have a sustainable business that's 100% FOSS even with Copyleft. I say that as someone who's made my living for the past 25 years using & producing nothing but open source (and mostly Copyleft) software.

@lightweight @kyle @lunduke The developer of NextCloud also has this experience, and has been recently giving talks on how GPL has helped his business without going the OpenCore route.

(Unlike what he was pushed into for OwnCloud)

@alcinnz @kyle @lunduke yup, I've watched @Karlitschek 's talk on the subject with interest. :)

@lightweight @kyle @lunduke much Like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, trying to hide the evil under the good.

@lwriemen @kyle @lunduke@librem Gates shouldn't have the money he does. At best, he's a carpet bagger and a railroad baron. He's certainly not admirable.

@lwriemen @kyle And we'll find, eventually, that the Gates Foundation isn't nearly as altruistic in its practices as its spin promotes... if you're not sure what I'm alluding to, talk to the Indians and Africans...

@lightweight That's what I was alluding to. The Gates Foundation has been exposed. These probably aren't news to you.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/25/how-the-gates-foundation-reflects-the-good-and-the-bad-of-hacker-philanthropy/

https://caucus99percent.com/content/%E2%80%98-real-agenda-gates-foundation%E2%80%99-jacob-levich

@kyle

@lwriemen @kyle sorry, I misinterpreted your post as being sarcastic :) Apologies

@lightweight @lwriemen @kyle It's interesting that Gates and his foundation are reviled by progressives, libertarians, *and* conservatives, yet he's inescapable on mainstream media as being portrayed as a magical guru.

@stevefoerster @lwriemen @kyle He's at best a digital railroad baron, will all the dirty dealings that implies.

@stevefoerster @lwriemen @kyle yeah, mostly the MSM is trying to sell advertising rather than provide anything like truth.

@lightweight @lunduke Given the death of software sales as a sustainable business model they don't have a choice if they want to survive. Amazon to the left of them, Google to the right here they are, stuck in the middle with GNU.

@kyle @lunduke I think they should just shuffle off :) They're dinosaurs trying to act all mammalian, but it's hard to hide the scales and the cold blood.

@kyle @lunduke They've had far more than their share of time in the sun. Now it's time for folks who're far more worthy.

@kyle @lightweight @lunduke consumer software sales, sure. i don’t think their corporate costomers are going to switch to linux anytime soon. do you have any ides how many ATMs worldwide still run windows xp and ce?

@kyle @lightweight @lunduke (much to microsoft’s consternation)

@zensaiyuki @kyle @lunduke Hah, yeah. The folks who set that up have failed. They've created the Hindenberg of business models. Idiots.

@kyle I think you're missing all the corporate sales. My office develops embedded products using C language. All of our compilers are based on hardware platform, but the company as a whole has standardized on Microsoft, so every dev has an MS professional developer license. $$$ Plus any additional licenses they are paying for TFS, Teams, Office, etc. @lightweight @lunduke

@lunduke On data mining, it's hard to tell how much Microsoft is doing that off of Bing, but in the past (and maybe still in the present) they've mined data from OS installs and Office installs. Given that there's money to be made, I'd bet they're doing it with Bing as well.
Until Google gets to a place where it's they've restricted choice as much as Microsoft has, they're not even 1 times as bad as Microsoft. I can use Firefox without jumping through hoops; I can't say the same for non-Windows.