Elias @eliasr@librem.one

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> Your actions speak an entirely different
> story. You seem interested in defending
> RMS

I do want to defend him when I see him being unfairly attacked. That does not mean I dismiss all problems that have been raised, but defending someone against unfair accusations is more important to me, it is about something bigger than RMS.

8/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

In a similar way, even if you think that a misleading reference is no big deal, please consider that others may think it is a big deal. In my opinion, using a misleading source when attacking a person is a very bad thing to do, much worse than the shouting example above.

Your personal view may be that misleading sources is okay, but please consider that others, like me for example, think misleading sources are unacceptable, especially when used in a personal attack.

7/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

That's about understanding how something you say/do is perceived by other people. As an example, people have complained about RMS shouting. Then, people defending RMS have responded that shouting is no big deal, nothing to worry about. But it may be a big deal to some of the people he shouted at, it may have been really hurtful.

6/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

So in this case, while you (who signed the letter) may think a misleading source is no big deal, it will be seen as a big deal by those who feel unfairly attacked.

5/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

Another side of it can be understood if you put yourself in the position of those who feel attacked. That's not only RMS himself but many others as well, as you probably know a lot of people have been offended by the open letter. Try to imagine how it looks from their point of view. There is an attack, and it uses a misleading source. We (humans) tend to become very defensive when attacked, and we tend to focus on parts that seem unfair.

4/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

One thing is that it simply weakens the whole thing in the eyes of readers. After all, if there is a strong case to be made, then why would a misleading reference be used? If the case is strong, then there should be no problem finding solid references.

3/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

In my view, when a group of people are writing accusations against one person, as the open letter does, then it is very important to make sure everything is correct and nothing is misleading. If one of the references is misleading then that is a big problem, for me it would mean I would not support those accusations, I would not sign something like that.

To explain why it is important to avoid misleading sources:

2/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> The headline and the article are misleading, yes.
> I believe it's a bad source for quote 2.

OK, then we agree on that. But probably we have different opinions regarding the importance of it.

1/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> > Like the headline of that article referred to.
>
> The letter explains it and I agree with that.

So you agree that the headline of that vice.com article is wrong?

> I still believe that you are [dishonest]
> even if it's not intentional.

Is it possible to be unintentionally dishonest? I think then it should be called something else, maybe "misguided" or something.

Anyway, thanks for at least allowing for the possibility that I am not intentionally dishonest. 🙂

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> you are dishonest

No, I am not.

> You piss me off.

That, I cannot argue with. It is probably true. But I would like to help you move from being pissed off, to instead understand what I mean.

I had hoped that the article (with the fixed spelling error) would help, I tried to be very careful with writing that.

Anyway, now I have at least tried to addressed your concerns. I'm going to bed, happy to discuss this more tomorrow.

6/6

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

In my opinion, if you make a personal attack (which you should probably not do in the first place), then it is not good if something you reference as basis for accusations turns out to be wrong. Like the headline of that article referred to.

I would like to understand your position regarding that; is it that you don't see anything wrong, or you see there is something wrong but you don't think it matters?

5/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> You continue to claim that people are
> being dishonest even though I've made
> it clear to you that I believe the claims.

You say that as if "the claims" is something that you can believe as a whole. That does not make sense. I have pointed to something specific that is false, I did so also in the article where you found the spelling error. Go and look it up, you will find that there is something false being referred to.

4/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> You have continued to spread every
> single article defending RMS

That is not true. For example, I have chosen not to spread the "pro-RMS" Github letter because I found it too harsh, too angry. I prefer more constructive dialogue.

3/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> You have continued claiming about CoC breaking

In my opinion, the open letter does not follow the advice of "Be friendly, Be empathetic, Be respectful", from the GNOME CoC. Do you have a different opinion about that?

> and then you claimed to be confused
> and wanting to hear the opinion of gnome developers

Yes, I have a hard time understanding how people working with GNOME projects can think signing such a letter is okay. I do want to hear then explain their thinking.

2/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> You misspelled "something" as "somthing"

Oh, thanks, I corrected that now.

> You have not addressed my concerns

I'm sorry, let me try to do that now.

> You have continued claiming
> the open letter is a mob attack.

There I think you put words in my mouth. But if what you mean is that I have pointed out that many people have together attacked a single person with a focus of trying to paint him as a terrible person, then, well, that's just what happened.

1/?

@cwebber@octodon.social I also wrote something related to this:

https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/

@mlemweb@octodon.social

Hello, doctor Lemmer-Webber. I heard on the podcast that you signed the open letter to "remove RMS". I wrote this about it, I hope you can find time to read it:

https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/

@Framasoft

Hi, I see Framasoft listed as one of the organizations that signed the open letter to "remove RMS". Then this is for you:

https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/

@torproject

Hi, I see Tor Project listed as one of the organizations that signed the open letter to "remove RMS". Then this is for you:

https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/

@arh@toots.alirezahayati.com @fsfi I just put up my own statement about the RMS open letter thing, or maybe statement is not the right word for it, but anyway, here it is:

https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/