@jeffcliff @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo IT TAKES GAS TO REPLACE THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE IT RUN ON GAS
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE BATTERIES RUN ON GAS
THE EARTH MOVING MACHINES THAT MINE LITHIUM RUN ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MOVES THE COMPONENTS AROUND FOR MANUFACTURE RUNS ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T RUN ON GAS -- DOESN'T EXIST
IN ORDER TO MAKE IT -- YOU NEED TO BURN GAS, NOW
THERE IS NO GAS TO BURN IT
YOU SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE THE "large, technical problems that need to be solved in the meanwhile"
AND YOU SEEM TO BE LABORING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS WORKING TO SOLVE THEM
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE IT RUN ON GAS
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE BATTERIES RUN ON GAS
THE EARTH MOVING MACHINES THAT MINE LITHIUM RUN ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MOVES THE COMPONENTS AROUND FOR MANUFACTURE RUNS ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T RUN ON GAS -- DOESN'T EXIST
IN ORDER TO MAKE IT -- YOU NEED TO BURN GAS, NOW
THERE IS NO GAS TO BURN IT
YOU SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE THE "large, technical problems that need to be solved in the meanwhile"
AND YOU SEEM TO BE LABORING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS WORKING TO SOLVE THEM
@nugger @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff People far more capable that I have looked at the numbers and thr known reserves of copper and lithium are not sufficient to convert all mobility (vars, trucks, trains, plane and boats) to electric, even if you are using plug-in serial hybrid vehicles. The materials just don't exist.
We face an energy delima: a problem with zero solutions.
We are going to lose capability. The only question is how much and where ae the losses going to occur.
We face an energy delima: a problem with zero solutions.
We are going to lose capability. The only question is how much and where ae the losses going to occur.
I think the most optimistic guy writing about it is John Michael Greer and his book titles flip flop from Dark Age America to The Eco-Technic Future
@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @nugger @jeffcliff Honestly, I don't think there is anyone with the ability to blunt the fall we are going to have. Best I can see is taking individual action to try and blunt the impact so we retain as much of the knowledge we have now so we don't have to spend time and effort rediscovering things as basic as the steam engine, electricity, radio and electronic computing.
@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @nugger Besides retaining knowledge, securing reliable energy (coppice/energy crops, wind/solar/hydro, and/or geothermal), reducing energy requirements and securing materials is next. Recycling and reducing/eliminating single-use disposables is part of that. Burn materials for energy instead of landfilling.
Localizing production and manufacturing so that long-distance transport is optional and no longer a basic requirement. Revitalize cottage industries. Reverse off-shoring.
Use climate change or peak oil as a bludgeon to do so, even if you think it's fake, if that's what it takes to gets the job done.
Localizing production and manufacturing so that long-distance transport is optional and no longer a basic requirement. Revitalize cottage industries. Reverse off-shoring.
Use climate change or peak oil as a bludgeon to do so, even if you think it's fake, if that's what it takes to gets the job done.
Follow
@teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff
So your solution is what every socialist nation has tried to do
@teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff
You would have to accept a lower standard of living, and slower technological advances as a trade off though. This idea if everything being localized has been tried, mostly by so called "socialist" countries
@societyoutcasts @teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @jeffcliff ITS BEEN TRIED LITERALLY FOR MOST OF HUMAN HISTORY MOSTLY BY ALL COUNTRIES
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff
Trading and commerce between different regions and nations was the driving force behind ALL THOSE COUNTRIES THROUGH HUMAN HISTORY in achieving a higher standard and advancing technology
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff GLASSWARE AND TIN AND THE LIKE
FOOD WAS LOCALLY SOURCED
CLOTH WASNT SHIPPED FROM BANGLADESH EITHER
NIGGERS LIVED IN AFRICA
THERE'S TRADEOFFS TO THIS KIND OF THING
FOOD WAS LOCALLY SOURCED
CLOTH WASNT SHIPPED FROM BANGLADESH EITHER
NIGGERS LIVED IN AFRICA
THERE'S TRADEOFFS TO THIS KIND OF THING
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts All of that was more expensive, but most of that extra cost was paid to other people in your community unlike now. The bottles and tin also weren't thrown in the trash after using once, either.
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff
That depends on what type you're referring to. Cloth was made from different materials. Different foods come from different areas.
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff DONT FUCKIN WEASEL AROUND
I DONT CARE ABOUT THE SILK ROAD IM A PEASANT
NOBODY GOT THEIR DAILY FARE SHIPPED TO THEM BY TRUCK BEFORE OIL, NOR WILL ANYBODY AFTER
I DONT CARE ABOUT THE SILK ROAD IM A PEASANT
NOBODY GOT THEIR DAILY FARE SHIPPED TO THEM BY TRUCK BEFORE OIL, NOR WILL ANYBODY AFTER
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff
Would you prefer to discuss cloth made from potato sacks then.
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff SACKS ARE MADE OF CLOTH, NIGGER
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff Spices and tin for bronze making were luxuries. The agrarian majority of the population grew their own food. Ships increased the range from where your local tradesman and petty noble could source things from, but nothing edible shipped byway of the spice road or ocean trade route between continents had a shelf life of less than a year.
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff not the sacks i gave 2 ur mum
@societyoutcasts @nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @jeffcliff
In a future with much more expensive oil, which do you think will be more likely:
1. All food will be shipped in from far away and most people will starve to death.
2. Food will be grown locally and specialty/regional foods will be grown in highly-insulated greenhouses.
I think #2 is far more likely.
In a future with much more expensive oil, which do you think will be more likely:
1. All food will be shipped in from far away and most people will starve to death.
2. Food will be grown locally and specialty/regional foods will be grown in highly-insulated greenhouses.
I think #2 is far more likely.
@teknomunk @societyoutcasts @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff SPEAKING OF 2 -- HAVE YOU SEEN PAUL WHEATON'S EARTH BERMED GREENHOUSE EXPERIMENTS
I WANT IN ON THAT
IM IN LEAGUE WITH A GUY WHO HAS LAND FOR IT ON A HILLSIDE AND WE'RE GONNA TRY TO BUILD ONE AND GROW FIGS IN MICHIGAN
I WANT IN ON THAT
IM IN LEAGUE WITH A GUY WHO HAS LAND FOR IT ON A HILLSIDE AND WE'RE GONNA TRY TO BUILD ONE AND GROW FIGS IN MICHIGAN
@teknomunk @societyoutcasts @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff THE GOLDEN GOOSE IS OF COURSE GONNA BE COFFEE
BUT THATS MILES DOWN THE ROAD
BUT THATS MILES DOWN THE ROAD
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @Zealist @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts That's a fun little laugh.
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts I had not seen this before (though I know of Paul Wheaton). I think I'm going to steal two of those for the greenhouse I'm currently working on: the thermosiphon pipe and the trench. I have plans on experimenting with insulating "blinds" to cover the areas sunlight enters thru (top and south).
A little of both. Although probably heavier on the local.
It depends on the area people live in and the availability of people to transport foodstuffs
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @teknomunk @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts That really isn't a problem if you just get rid of Niggers.
@Agartha_Noble @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @teknomunk @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts THERE'S STILL PROBLEMS WITH DISCONNECTING YOUR INTELLECTUAL ELITE FROM FOUNDATIONAL PROCESSES OF SOCIETY SUCH AS GROWING FOOD
THAT WAS ACTUALLY ANOTHER PRETTY GOOD SIDE TO THE NSDAP PLATFORM, THE WHOLE NEW NOBILITY OF BLOOD AND SOIL THING
BOOTSTRAPPING AN ELITE OUT OF PEOPLE GROUNDED IN THE FOLKWAYS AND THEIR ENVIRONMENT
THAT WAS ACTUALLY ANOTHER PRETTY GOOD SIDE TO THE NSDAP PLATFORM, THE WHOLE NEW NOBILITY OF BLOOD AND SOIL THING
BOOTSTRAPPING AN ELITE OUT OF PEOPLE GROUNDED IN THE FOLKWAYS AND THEIR ENVIRONMENT
@nugger @Agartha_Noble @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @teknomunk @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts The society that separates it's warriors from it's scholars will have it's shitposting done by NEETs and it's niggerbeating done by zogbots
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff Tin kitchenware is underrated anyway.
We're just going to make blacksmithing cool again. That's my solution to all of these hypothetical questions.
Just take these autistic video game nerds and teach them how to make a rivet.
Shit will be groovy.
We're just going to make blacksmithing cool again. That's my solution to all of these hypothetical questions.
Just take these autistic video game nerds and teach them how to make a rivet.
Shit will be groovy.
@societyoutcasts @nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff Yes, because they were importing things that didn't exist locally.
That's not the same thing as deliberately killing and exporting your own industry.
That's not the same thing as deliberately killing and exporting your own industry.
You better start getting used to the idea of lower standards of living either way. It's never getting better than what we have now again.
@Ottovonshitpost @societyoutcasts @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff "I hate globalism! Everything should be produced locally!"
5 minutes later
"Chicken is $10 a pound! The West has fallen!"
5 minutes later
"Chicken is $10 a pound! The West has fallen!"
@monsterislandcolonizer @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff
And very true. Prices around here for "local grass-fed raised with love" ground beef costs around $14/lb.
@societyoutcasts @monsterislandcolonizer @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff FOR MOST OF HUMAN HISTORY FOOD WAS THE PRIMARY EXPENSE
THATS WHY ROME'S DOLE WHEAT WAS SUCH A FLEX
SOON LOCAL GRASS-FED RAISED WITH LOVE BEEF WILL COST FORTY BUCKS A POUND AND THERE WILL BE NO OTHER BEEF
THATS WHY ROME'S DOLE WHEAT WAS SUCH A FLEX
SOON LOCAL GRASS-FED RAISED WITH LOVE BEEF WILL COST FORTY BUCKS A POUND AND THERE WILL BE NO OTHER BEEF
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @monsterislandcolonizer @jeffcliff
Rome had trade routes to send and receive goods
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @monsterislandcolonizer @jeffcliff GEE WHIZ POINDEXTER DID THEY USE THESE TRADE ROUTES TO GROW THEIR FOOD STAPLES DAYS TRAVEL FROM THEIR POPULATION CENTERS AND SHIP THEM IN WITH DIESEL-FUELED TRUCKS?
@monsterislandcolonizer @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @nugger @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts What does chicken raised in your backyard mostly on bugs and seeds cost per pound?
@teknomunk @monsterislandcolonizer @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts WELL IT COSTS LAND AND LABOR
AS TO HOW THAT GETS QUANTIFIED IN FEDERAL DOLLARS AT THE POINT WHERE THERE'S NO MORE CHICKEN AT WALMART -- ITS IFFY, THESE VALUATION SYSTEMS BECOME UNRELIABLE
AS TO HOW THAT GETS QUANTIFIED IN FEDERAL DOLLARS AT THE POINT WHERE THERE'S NO MORE CHICKEN AT WALMART -- ITS IFFY, THESE VALUATION SYSTEMS BECOME UNRELIABLE
@teknomunk @monsterislandcolonizer @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts I VAGUELY REMEMBER $500-700/YEAR BEING THE GDP EQUIVALENT OF SUBSISTENCE FARMING ACTIVITY
@Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff
Maybe, maybe not. How bad do you think it's going to be?
Everything around you was built and maintained with a finite resource and one day that finite resource will become too costly to extract. All other forms of energy are vastly inferior and use this same finite resource to use.
@Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff
Yes, but again that has happened before and people discovered new resources to use, or made improvements in technology to get existing resources cheaper
"then the miracle happened"
ok
ok
@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts Also, entropy is a bitch.
@CoQ_10 @Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @teknomunk @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts HEY EVEN THE MONA LISA IS FALLING APART
@nugger @CoQ_10 @Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @teknomunk @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts Perhaps I'll order some goyslop today, as a treat.
Let the rusty wheels of our dying beast of a civilization turn for me for once, while they can still turn.
Let the rusty wheels of our dying beast of a civilization turn for me for once, while they can still turn.
@societyoutcasts @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @jeffcliff I GUESS THE EPIC SCIENTISTS WILL HAVE TO STRAP IN TO BATTLE THE COLD HARD MATH OF THE SPREADSHEET
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff
remember back in the 60's when they claimed we had only 40 years of oil left, how'd that turn out
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff TURNED OUT SHITTY AS YOU CAN SEE
ALL THE ELEPHANT FIELDS HAD BEEN TAPPED BY THE 50S
BY 60S NEW DISCOVERIES SLOWED TO A CRAWL
SEVENTIES WERE ROUGH, THEN THE REAGAN ERA DISCOVERIES TIDED US OVER THROUGH 80S AND 90S ALTHOUGH ON THE PRICE LEVELS OF THAT 70S PEAK
PRODUCTION AND INDUSTRY SHITTERED, ECONOMY WAS FINANCIALIZED TO HIDE THAT AND PROP UP DECLINE WITH FAKE PAPER GROWTH
IN 05' WE'VE HIT THE PEAK ON CONVENTIONAL OIL AND NO NEW DISCOVERIES CAME
PRICES HIKED, MONEY WAS SHIFTED AROUND AGAIN TO PROP THIS UP, 08' ECONOMIC CRISIS FROM HOUSING MARKET FROM PRECARIOUS OVERFINANCIALIZATION
HIGH PRICES AND ARTIFICIALLY CHEAP DEBT MADE SHALE DRILLING ECONOMICALLY POSSIBLE, AND HERE WE ARE
IN A FEVER DREAM, SCRAPING BY ON DWINDLING SCRAPS AS THE PRICE NEEDLE JUMPS UP AND DOWN
ALL THE ELEPHANT FIELDS HAD BEEN TAPPED BY THE 50S
BY 60S NEW DISCOVERIES SLOWED TO A CRAWL
SEVENTIES WERE ROUGH, THEN THE REAGAN ERA DISCOVERIES TIDED US OVER THROUGH 80S AND 90S ALTHOUGH ON THE PRICE LEVELS OF THAT 70S PEAK
PRODUCTION AND INDUSTRY SHITTERED, ECONOMY WAS FINANCIALIZED TO HIDE THAT AND PROP UP DECLINE WITH FAKE PAPER GROWTH
IN 05' WE'VE HIT THE PEAK ON CONVENTIONAL OIL AND NO NEW DISCOVERIES CAME
PRICES HIKED, MONEY WAS SHIFTED AROUND AGAIN TO PROP THIS UP, 08' ECONOMIC CRISIS FROM HOUSING MARKET FROM PRECARIOUS OVERFINANCIALIZATION
HIGH PRICES AND ARTIFICIALLY CHEAP DEBT MADE SHALE DRILLING ECONOMICALLY POSSIBLE, AND HERE WE ARE
IN A FEVER DREAM, SCRAPING BY ON DWINDLING SCRAPS AS THE PRICE NEEDLE JUMPS UP AND DOWN
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff THINGS HAVE NOT GOTTEN BETTER SINCE THEN I CAN TELL YOU THAT MUCH
WE HAVE NOT BEEN FINDING EVER MORE AND MORE OIL SINCE THEN
THE OIL HAS NOT BEEN GETTING CHEAPER
WE HAVE NOT BEEN FINDING EVER MORE AND MORE OIL SINCE THEN
THE OIL HAS NOT BEEN GETTING CHEAPER
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff I SHOULD REALLY RECORD FIRST CHAPTER OF KUNSTLER'S NEW BOOK FOR YOU NIBBAS
SHOT VOICE AND TIN CAN MICROPHONE NONWITHSTANDING
SHOT VOICE AND TIN CAN MICROPHONE NONWITHSTANDING
Sliding down off the peak of Mt. Hubbert
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts Sounds right to me. There well could be plenty of oil left in the ground, but that does us no good if it isn't feasible to get it out of the ground. At the same time, people are trying to pretend that things are the same as it always has been.
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff BY THE WAY REMEMBER BACK IN THE 60'S WHEN THEY CLAIMED COLD FUSION WAS ONLY A DECADE AWAY, HOW'D THAT TURN OUT
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff BEST I CAN DO IS COLDFUSION YOUTUBE CHANNEL
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff global freezing is more real than global warming, it will happen, its inevitable
@Floydian_Psychology @nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff my dna has prepared me for this day
There isn't the political will for that at any level.
Individuals and groups still mostly retain the ability to act in their local sphere and everthing I suggested can be done at that level, just at a smaller scale than you are probably thinking off.
I recommend the climate change/peak oil as a conversational club to use against those liberals in your area that would oppose such measures (i.e. you, someone who claims that climate change is a problem, oppose this thing that aboslutely would help?)