@jeffcliff @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo IT TAKES GAS TO REPLACE THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE IT RUN ON GAS
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE BATTERIES RUN ON GAS
THE EARTH MOVING MACHINES THAT MINE LITHIUM RUN ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MOVES THE COMPONENTS AROUND FOR MANUFACTURE RUNS ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T RUN ON GAS -- DOESN'T EXIST
IN ORDER TO MAKE IT -- YOU NEED TO BURN GAS, NOW
THERE IS NO GAS TO BURN IT
YOU SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE THE "large, technical problems that need to be solved in the meanwhile"
AND YOU SEEM TO BE LABORING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS WORKING TO SOLVE THEM
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE IT RUN ON GAS
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE BATTERIES RUN ON GAS
THE EARTH MOVING MACHINES THAT MINE LITHIUM RUN ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MOVES THE COMPONENTS AROUND FOR MANUFACTURE RUNS ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T RUN ON GAS -- DOESN'T EXIST
IN ORDER TO MAKE IT -- YOU NEED TO BURN GAS, NOW
THERE IS NO GAS TO BURN IT
YOU SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE THE "large, technical problems that need to be solved in the meanwhile"
AND YOU SEEM TO BE LABORING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS WORKING TO SOLVE THEM
@nugger @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff People far more capable that I have looked at the numbers and thr known reserves of copper and lithium are not sufficient to convert all mobility (vars, trucks, trains, plane and boats) to electric, even if you are using plug-in serial hybrid vehicles. The materials just don't exist.
We face an energy delima: a problem with zero solutions.
We are going to lose capability. The only question is how much and where ae the losses going to occur.
We face an energy delima: a problem with zero solutions.
We are going to lose capability. The only question is how much and where ae the losses going to occur.
I think the most optimistic guy writing about it is John Michael Greer and his book titles flip flop from Dark Age America to The Eco-Technic Future
@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @nugger @jeffcliff Honestly, I don't think there is anyone with the ability to blunt the fall we are going to have. Best I can see is taking individual action to try and blunt the impact so we retain as much of the knowledge we have now so we don't have to spend time and effort rediscovering things as basic as the steam engine, electricity, radio and electronic computing.
@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @nugger Besides retaining knowledge, securing reliable energy (coppice/energy crops, wind/solar/hydro, and/or geothermal), reducing energy requirements and securing materials is next. Recycling and reducing/eliminating single-use disposables is part of that. Burn materials for energy instead of landfilling.
Localizing production and manufacturing so that long-distance transport is optional and no longer a basic requirement. Revitalize cottage industries. Reverse off-shoring.
Use climate change or peak oil as a bludgeon to do so, even if you think it's fake, if that's what it takes to gets the job done.
Localizing production and manufacturing so that long-distance transport is optional and no longer a basic requirement. Revitalize cottage industries. Reverse off-shoring.
Use climate change or peak oil as a bludgeon to do so, even if you think it's fake, if that's what it takes to gets the job done.
@teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff
So your solution is what every socialist nation has tried to do
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff No. "What every socialist nation has tried to do" is a top-down decree on mostly unwilling people or people expecting a free lunch that can't possibly have the information needed to succeed.
There isn't the political will for that at any level.
Individuals and groups still mostly retain the ability to act in their local sphere and everthing I suggested can be done at that level, just at a smaller scale than you are probably thinking off.
I recommend the climate change/peak oil as a conversational club to use against those liberals in your area that would oppose such measures (i.e. you, someone who claims that climate change is a problem, oppose this thing that aboslutely would help?)
There isn't the political will for that at any level.
Individuals and groups still mostly retain the ability to act in their local sphere and everthing I suggested can be done at that level, just at a smaller scale than you are probably thinking off.
I recommend the climate change/peak oil as a conversational club to use against those liberals in your area that would oppose such measures (i.e. you, someone who claims that climate change is a problem, oppose this thing that aboslutely would help?)
@teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff
You would have to accept a lower standard of living, and slower technological advances as a trade off though. This idea if everything being localized has been tried, mostly by so called "socialist" countries
You better start getting used to the idea of lower standards of living either way. It's never getting better than what we have now again.
@Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff
Maybe, maybe not. How bad do you think it's going to be?
Everything around you was built and maintained with a finite resource and one day that finite resource will become too costly to extract. All other forms of energy are vastly inferior and use this same finite resource to use.
@Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff
Yes, but again that has happened before and people discovered new resources to use, or made improvements in technology to get existing resources cheaper
@societyoutcasts @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @teknomunk @jeffcliff I GUESS THE EPIC SCIENTISTS WILL HAVE TO STRAP IN TO BATTLE THE COLD HARD MATH OF THE SPREADSHEET
Follow
@nugger @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff
remember back in the 60's when they claimed we had only 40 years of oil left, how'd that turn out
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff THINGS HAVE NOT GOTTEN BETTER SINCE THEN I CAN TELL YOU THAT MUCH
WE HAVE NOT BEEN FINDING EVER MORE AND MORE OIL SINCE THEN
THE OIL HAS NOT BEEN GETTING CHEAPER
WE HAVE NOT BEEN FINDING EVER MORE AND MORE OIL SINCE THEN
THE OIL HAS NOT BEEN GETTING CHEAPER
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff I SHOULD REALLY RECORD FIRST CHAPTER OF KUNSTLER'S NEW BOOK FOR YOU NIBBAS
SHOT VOICE AND TIN CAN MICROPHONE NONWITHSTANDING
SHOT VOICE AND TIN CAN MICROPHONE NONWITHSTANDING
Sliding down off the peak of Mt. Hubbert
@nugger @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @societyoutcasts Sounds right to me. There well could be plenty of oil left in the ground, but that does us no good if it isn't feasible to get it out of the ground. At the same time, people are trying to pretend that things are the same as it always has been.
@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff BY THE WAY REMEMBER BACK IN THE 60'S WHEN THEY CLAIMED COLD FUSION WAS ONLY A DECADE AWAY, HOW'D THAT TURN OUT
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff BEST I CAN DO IS COLDFUSION YOUTUBE CHANNEL
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff global freezing is more real than global warming, it will happen, its inevitable
@Floydian_Psychology @nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff my dna has prepared me for this day
@nugger @societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @jeffcliff All the researchers being murdered the second they showed potential for progress until people learned their place.
ALL THE ELEPHANT FIELDS HAD BEEN TAPPED BY THE 50S
BY 60S NEW DISCOVERIES SLOWED TO A CRAWL
SEVENTIES WERE ROUGH, THEN THE REAGAN ERA DISCOVERIES TIDED US OVER THROUGH 80S AND 90S ALTHOUGH ON THE PRICE LEVELS OF THAT 70S PEAK
PRODUCTION AND INDUSTRY SHITTERED, ECONOMY WAS FINANCIALIZED TO HIDE THAT AND PROP UP DECLINE WITH FAKE PAPER GROWTH
IN 05' WE'VE HIT THE PEAK ON CONVENTIONAL OIL AND NO NEW DISCOVERIES CAME
PRICES HIKED, MONEY WAS SHIFTED AROUND AGAIN TO PROP THIS UP, 08' ECONOMIC CRISIS FROM HOUSING MARKET FROM PRECARIOUS OVERFINANCIALIZATION
HIGH PRICES AND ARTIFICIALLY CHEAP DEBT MADE SHALE DRILLING ECONOMICALLY POSSIBLE, AND HERE WE ARE
IN A FEVER DREAM, SCRAPING BY ON DWINDLING SCRAPS AS THE PRICE NEEDLE JUMPS UP AND DOWN