m0xEE @m0xee@librem.one

@sotolf
Yes, these are my assumptions — but I'm not pulling them out of thin air, I'm basing them on your replies in this here thread. If by modularity or "being monolithic" you mean something else entirely — please explain yourself.
@rl_dane @thelinuxcast

@sotolf
Same as input and output in Xorg do not live in separate processes and you don't interact with them over a network protocol or some clever IPC — they are shared objects that implement a certain ABI, does this make Xorg monolithic? No, it's a *modular* X server.
@rl_dane @thelinuxcast

@sotolf
Can this library just not be there? No, it can't — because it's an essential part, same as X server can't "not be there".
Can what this library does live in a separate process so you could interact with it over a network protocol? No, it can't — because dropping the network protocol part was a deliberate design decision. You might not like it, and although debatable, that would at least be a valid point — but it still has nothing to do with modularity.
@rl_dane @thelinuxcast

@sotolf
If there is someone who is putting words in other's mouth — then it's you and you are doing it in a rather rude manner, accusing me of attempting to "win a discussion", while I simply don't get what you mean by "being monolithic".
Can you implement a WM without implementing a compositor? Yes you can — you can rely on a library, same as Sway does with wlroots.
@rl_dane @thelinuxcast

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
Same way as you have to have an X display server to run a WM — even if that would be headless, WM doesn't exist in limbo all by itself.
Having a library means you can replace it with a different library implementing the same interfaces, or build a different WM on top of that library. You can interface with a library, you can communicate using a network protocol — neither approach is monolithic.

@sotolf
I might've misunderstood you as you didn't really elaborate on what you mean by being monolithic — if I did, you can always correct me 🤷
> can you make a wm in wayland without writing a compositor
Would it even make any sense if display server itself is called a "wayland conpositor"? Again, Sway might be considered a WM — technically it IS a compositor, but it doesn't implement it from the ground up — it relies on wlroots, in this regard it's quite modular.
@rl_dane @thelinuxcast

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
I'm just sharing my experience — if you think that doesn't contribute anything to the conversation, you can… just not reply to me.
And I had to split my reply in four parts because this instance has a 500 character limit, this should've been a single reply. If I did annoy you with extra notifications, that wasn't my intent at all. Sorry for that if that is what you mean.

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
I don't "keep misinterpreting" — maybe I just didn't get what you mean about being monolithic. E.g. for input there is libinput — again a separate software and Xorg can use it too. XFree86 wasn't modular either — it took a great deal of effort to make it such. I don't see anything in Wayland's design that would intrinsically make it monolithic.

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
And I'm not someone who uses all the latest-greatest — far from it, most of hardware I use is a decade or more older, and I've been using Linux systems when Xorg itself didn't exist. I just don't stick to my old habits and for me Wayland just works. True, it doesn't support exact window placement — but I don't use that, it might not play well with some hardware, but on the one I have and that supports it, it works fine.

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
Theoretically, it can be solved by using a compositor with Xorg — but it complicates things instead of making them simpler, and would probably result in performance drop.
True, Wayland solves this problem by relying on features of modern hardware instead of relying on lowest common denominator and supporting chipsets like Intel 915, but in the end it pays off.

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
BTW screen tearing isn't about video, it's noticeable even when scrolling the page in Firefox — I've been surprised to see it even on relatively modern hardware (modern = not two decades old in my case 😂), I've tried everything — every Xorg setting, every Firefox setting in the book and couldn't get rid of it, when I switched to sway — it's just gone! Simple as that!

@sotolf @rl_dane @thelinuxcast
Nothing monolith about it if you don't use a distro that relies of systemd, sway is a separate software, wlroots is a separate software, I think you need elogind for seat management or whatever they call it — that's about it. I hate systemd and I don't use it, but I use Void with Sway on hardware that supports it and it works perfectly.

@threat
I usually don't take boxes I use for hosting stuff, I could — these aren't big either, but there's no need to, they are pretty autonomous, the most they need is being restarted after the power outage, I can do everything else, including the filesystem repairs remotely.

@threat
You know me, I'm not very demanding in terms of computing power, any modern laptop would feel like a supercomputer to me — even quad-core i7 still feels like a decent machine for building stuff. I'm used to be on low-powered and old equipment.
I think all computers I use daily could fit in a medium-sized suitcase, in fact I sometimes do take this stuff with me when I have the opportunity to live in the country.

@newt @kaia @hj
It means she got it from someone else before you 😜
Now that I think about it, there is something perverse in a way knowledge is transmitted the same way as… deviations induced by trauma 🤔

@snacks @flisk @lain
I've used the form thingie and went with its recommendations, it did improve things a bit, but it still didn't make running Pemorla butter-smooth…
Maybe old PowerPC Mac Mini with only a gigabyte of RAM and an HDD just isn't the perfect hardware for it 😜

@icedquinn @volpeon
I really want to get myself one of those robot vacuum cleaners, but every time I realize what amount of work it is to root one and make it usable with something like Valetudo, I'm get like: "A-ah, fuck it!"

@kevinrothrock
More taxes = less taxes — a classic 😂