@newt
This might even sound reasonable were we not comparing it to Qt — Qt for fuck's sake! The single most disgusting thing in two universes.
Which in 2002 was more bloated than the web BTW — QML is the grandfather of modern web debauchery. The only good thing about it is that it contains a wide range of ready to use components — that's what they did with GTK4, so now development dependencies drag even GStreamer in, but somehow you don't like it.
@mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
@newt
> Probably the best tool for UI development we currently have
When a developer tells me: "I use Qt because it's the easiest way to make my software cross-platform",— I think… Okay, you've given up on the way your software looks and feels and took the easy way out. Other options require lots of effort, it's not for everyone. It's somewhat acceptable, but when I see something like this from the user's perspective:
@newt
> Qt is very nice
No! Just no! It's a steaming disgusting pile of crap!
@newt
One of the signs you might be a conspiracy-theorist 😏
Also, mind you, I never ever mentioned cross-platform stuff here. I use Qt only for Linux (maybe BSD) and don't really care about non-X11 systems.
@newt
> I use Qt only for Linux (maybe BSD) and don't really care about non-X11 systems.
Well, we also have a room full of people right here who use GTK in Linux and are perfectly fine with it, so…
What should the punchline be? "Works for me 🤷"?
@mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
@newt @mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
People using Windows?! Oh, come on! Stop making shit up! 😏
Less using Windows than how can you eyes handle that color scheme 💀
@charlie_root
Ha-ha-ha! I think it "enhances" the overall "using Windows" experience. I only use light colour scheme on this Windows machine and, although I can't say I only did it for this screenshot, but I was messing with Bloat's CSS right before taking this screenshot 🤣
@newt
Oh, man, don't! I know you can relate — you're relying on Qt daily!
I hope you can get off this shit before it kills you 😏
@newt
Unlike you I have like 7 machines and none of them have Qt or anything depending on it. This one, among other things, has Windows — it's a guilty pleasure of mine. I usually don't even show it to anyone, but you're special.
For you on the other hand Qt is like… Drug of choice. Switching to Windows as replacement therapy? 🤔 No, not good, I won't recommend it!
@m0xee @adiz @newt @prettygood qt software is often ugly
@mischievoustomato
I have to admit that it got much less so with years, and by the low standards we have today its requirements might seem modest.
But as 2002 was mentioned in the opening post, I think it's worth noting that at the time Qt was extremely bloated, slow and… just abominable! Athena widget set didn't seem that ugly in comparison.
>in 2002
Last I checked, it is the year of Our Lord and Saviour 2025. 2002 was 23 years ago. People born in 2002 are having kids now.
@newt
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was it me or was it someone nicknamed Newt, who mentioned a comment from… 2001 even (!) in the opening post? 🤔
@newt
Gnome wasn't "slow and bugged" — especially compared to Qt-based KDE of the time. This was my point!
I don't even know what full GNOME experience is nowadays, but what I have learned from that time is to never touch anything Qt — even with a five-hundred-metre pole!
@newt
I see new Qt software every now and then — it's hard to not notice that things have improved, computers got more performant so having GUI toolkit in C++ became acceptable, but it's still not something worth installing 200 packages named "qt-kitchen-sink" and KDE… It's something I knew I would never use, it feels wrong to me in every possible way.
@m0xee @adiz @newt @prettygood i find it funny because right now qt/kde is a massive bugfest, but not just that, an eyesore in many places. I really tried to like kde but at every corner it's a disappointment
@m0xee @adiz @newt @prettygood Nowadays it's still kinda eh. It looks modern but often the more I look the odder things look and it becomes super annoying
@newt
It's basically like Delphi or rather C++ Builder, but cross-platform — and in no OS it looks native.
To be fair, I know a couple of commercial applications for Mac OS X using Qt that almost look natively, but A LOT of effort was put into it. In Windows it always looks like an illegal alien, and in Linux it's so ugly that you can scare children with it 😱
@mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
@newt
And no matter how they modularise it, to develop with it you still have to build this giant monolith comparable to Firefox and Chrome, and it has an optional component based on the latter.
Man, can anything — anything at all, be worse than this… thing! 🤢
@mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
@newt
Have you ever seen that? A developer relying on whatever their distro gives them if that is their immediate dependency?
There are reasons for that — testing with different versions, avoiding distro-specific patches…
@newt
And when someone tells you that your software can't be built in Debian with latest version of dependencies and segfaults even when patched to be buildable… Let me guess, you tell them WONTFIX: "Go fuck yourself and use the versions that I use" — congratulations, you've reinvented snaps/flatpaks without wasting any effort on providing the infrastructure 😂
@mischievoustomato @prettygood @adiz
@newt @adiz @prettygood @m0xee i build qt with a patch to disable stem darkening
@m0xee @adiz @newt @prettygood macOS always gets nice support 😭😭😭
@mischievoustomato
Not in 2000s, it wasn't. Relying on Qt as your GUI framework was not the status quo, more like a bold move, but in terms of being cross-platform it was a good choice even at the time.
@adiz @newt @prettygood
@m0xee @adiz @newt @prettygood gtk4 feels light tbqh and gstreamer is great
@mischievoustomato
I don't have anything against GStreamer per se, I think that this "batteries included" approach is problematic — I think it will make GTK4 a lot like Qt, both in good and bad ways 🤷
@adiz @newt @prettygood
You too are wrong, therefore.