Elias @eliasr@librem.one

@t0k There is something very weird about the fact that a whole bunch of organizations have decided to officially sign a text that makes grave personal attacks against an individual person.

How can that be even remotely okay with the stated purposes of those organizations, according to by-laws or whatever rules they have?

@volt4ire

> fuck you

I don't think that kind of language is helpful.

Could you please explain what you mean in a more respectful manner?

Preferably, start by reading what she wrote there and then comment on that. I would like to hear what you think about it.

@zbrown

> it's the best kind of contribution

Thanks 🙂

I was surprised to see your name in the list of signatures under the "open letter", after I have having read some different viewpoints for example this https://libreboot.org/news/rms.html and this https://www.arp242.net/rms.html it's hard for me to understand. Could you explain?

@joacim

> no other foundation, corporation or similar would put a person with that track record in a public facing leadership position. And yet, FSF did.

True. Note however that he is the founder of the FSF, kicking out the founder is a special situation, maybe not easy.

> a boost does not imply endorsement

Sure. Thanks for explaining what you meant.

Anyway, in my opinion, if more people did like like arp242 and thought carefully before accusing someone, the world would be a better place.

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

I agree it has been tiring. 🙂

But I think it did give me a better understanding of your reasoning. I think perhaps the main point where we disagree is on to what extent "the end justifies the means".

Anyway, thanks for talking to me about this.

Have a great day

@joacim

> Attacks on RMS are neither unjust or ill-founded

Is it your position that all attacks on RMS are automatically just and well-founded? You do not need to know what the specific attack is?

What I was referring to is specifically the "open letter", please read https://www.arp242.net/rms.html to understand what I mean, it is explained quite well there.

Is your opinion that arp242 is wrong, everybody should directly join all accusations, there is no point in thinking before signing something?

@joacim

I also wonder what the people signing the "open letter" were thinking. I saw that you boosted https://www.arp242.net/rms.html earlier, perhaps you agree that it is appropriate to read carefully and think before deciding to sign something like that.

If the FSF gives in to demands because of that letter, does it mean that the kind of unjust and ill-founded personal attacks found in that letter are the new normal, the modern way of wielding power? Do the ends justify the means?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

So when asked if that page gives correct info, you answered:

> Generally, yes.

I am surprised that you would worry so little about the false allegation there. Or maybe you don't see it?

Please read this, then I am sure you will understand: https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

As you can see, the medium text specifically notes that the article with that headline "does a great job".

So that is the kind of information that the open letter points to, so that the reader will get to know more.

In your opinion, is this medium page that the open letter refers to a good source of correct information?

9/9

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

8/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

Looking at that medium page, the reader finds this, including the headline "Renowned MIT Scientist Defends Epstein: Victims Were ‘Entirely Willing’": (see next)

7/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

6/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

The appendix starts off with "RMS has a history of mistreating women" and refers to "[0]" which is a link to a medium.com page, it looks like this: (see next)

5/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

4/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

I would like to ask you about the information referred to in the appendix as well.

The open letter links to an appendix, the link says "We have detailed several public incidents of RMS’s behavior", it look like this: (see next)

3/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

If someone has launched several severe allegations against a person, and then they realize that parts of the allegations are wrong, you are saying they should still not do anything to correct their mistake because "it is not worth their time".

I disagree with you on this point. In my opinion it is worth the time to correct mistakes in such a case.

2/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

> If they generally still agree, it is not worth their time to make a similar movement.

You seem to have lost sight of the fact that you are making very serious accusations against a person. If you have attacked another human being unfairly, correcting that is very important.

1/?

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

There is nothing wrong with admitting a mistake, on the contrary it is very important to be able to do so, for anyone with the intellectual honesty that you have.

Do you agree that someone who signed something with severe accusations and later realizes that it was wrong to sign it, that the right thing to do for that person is to remove their signature?

7/7

@lionirdeadman@fosstodon.org

I understand that you find yourself in a difficult position, since if you remove your signature then you send a signal to others that signing the letter was not such a good idea after all. Maybe you convinced others to sign it earlier, then you will need to explain yourself to them. I hope that will not stop you from doing the right thing.

6/?