m0xEE @m0xee@librem.one

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki You can also install GNU/Linux easily on any Android ARM-based tablet because you at least have some kernel, but you don't have it if it came with Windows.
I didn't put Windows there because I'm shy or I'm only comfortable with using Windows, I've been using Linux (GNU one) since the 90-ies, but because with Linux (the kernel) this thing is fscking useless!

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Oh FFS, why are you doing this to me? 🙏
I have the device, this one doesn't! I'm sure you can run anything easily on Intel-based tablet, but not the ARM-one because there is no devicetree for it. It's some advanced shit, usually SoC maker gives this along with reference kernel to the device maker. Ther person capable of making this on their own can find something better to do.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Got what working, network adapter? Alright we have some slow unaccelerated output, some networking that is unstable… Okay, maybe we can get USB, so some input, now what?
With Windows I can run latest Firefox and watch FullHD moviest from a network storage and with Linux (GNU/Linux or anything actually because the problem is with *the kernel*) I get what, device as enjoyable as logging into a router? Why would I want that? 🤔

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Does this make every ARM-based device that came with Windows have good hardware support by linux (the kernel)? 😏

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network And as it is an ARM device even if kernel supports some hardware you've got to have proper Device Tree. It won't appear out of thin air and no one made one available for a device that was designed to run Windows Mobile. So it's not that easy.

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network I've mentioned networking because I've read that someone got it running. It means that it is at least supported *by the kernel* so in theory you can get it running.
And no, even getting to the login prompt on a device like that doesn't make it useable if you can't have any input (e.g. USB doesn't work).
So my point was that there is no point of installing anything linux including GNU/Linux if most hardware is not supported *by the kernel*.

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network
So you started with being strict about Linux — GNU/Linux and now you tell us the "booting linux" means getting to the login prompt? 😏
Booting linux means exactly that — getting kernel to the point when, in theory, it can mount the real root fs and get to starting other os facilities. Your init script may even stop here. Gracefully.
If you get to some sort of busybox prompt, you are far from bringing up the network, but it still counts!

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Sorry, it wasn't out of disrespect 😅
But if we are nitpicking here I don't know what I should explain and what I shouldn't.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Nope, if grub can read the kernel and initrd, the kernel will still boot using the stuff initrd has in it to the point when it should mount the real root.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki initrd is optional, but most linux-based operating systems use it as it has some advantages. For example, you can have filesystem support built as kernel modules, including support for the filesystem your real root partition has. Otherwise you'd have to have them built into the kernel.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Then a lot of other shit happens, agetty or something similar gets started and you get the login prompt. At last!
Thing is, if real root filesystem is not accessible: block device is not accessible, filesystem is not supported or it is damaged — you won't get the login prompt. But you will still see the errors in *framebuffer* console.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki It sure does! the bootloader reads initrd image and just passes it to the kernel. Kernel doesn't know shit about most file systems at this point. The init itself is in initrd image (so initrd comes first), so are the filesystem modules. Init inserts filesystem modules (and the modules required for the block devices to work) into the kernel then mounts the real root filesystem, now that it has the proper filesystem support and has the block device accessible.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki There is this thing called initrd. Yeah, if you go into nitpicking mode, you can pretend you didn't understand what I was talking about.
Just do dd if=/dev/random of=the-block-device-you-have-your-real-root-partition-on and see how framebuffer works, but you still get no login prompt 😄

@Suiseiseki I didn't mention any login prompt. The fact that framebuffer works doesn't imply login prompt, it doesn't even imply you can access built-in storage and mount the root partition, right?
I get it, you just want to push some agenda, but this doesn't look like a perfect occasion to do it.

@Suiseiseki It is more ambiguous than using linux though. I think everyone here gets that I'm talking about GNU/Linux, not Android, not Chimera or some other even more obscure shit.
I know the difference, you know the difference — everyone in this thread does. If I was writing a paper on it, I'd use the correct term, but you don't have to be so picky about the coments in a rather humorous thread.

@Suiseiseki I insist that it is acceptable. Sure the kernel won't work by itself, but that is not what my point was. This device is not usable because there is no support for the hardware it has *in the kernel*. No init can change that.

@Suiseiseki And I'd certainly use GNU/linux more often than I do now if I didn't have this 500 character limit.

@Suiseiseki I still think it's acceptable in this rare case. Only the kernel boots on this device, the userspace doesn't matter at this point 😆

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @safiuddinkhan@fosstodon.org @hacknorris @2T2@mstdn.starnix.network Oh, now I get the question 😂
Why Windows and not Linux? Because the community port of Windows is great, everything works, including HW video decoding. It can boot linux — but that's it. It has some framebuffer support and the networking might work if stars align properly. A device like this is hardly useful.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @safiuddinkhan@fosstodon.org @hacknorris @2T2@mstdn.starnix.network It has this nice dock. You can plug kb, mouse and a display into it and use it like a normal computer. It has only 3Gb of RAM and a dated SoC, but it's still okay. I have hooked up one of the TVs to it — the one that doesn't have any "smart" features to it so I can watch movies directly from NAS.
I've got a cheap Chinese phone to use… as a phone, but this one still works, why throw it away?