m0xEE @m0xee@librem.one

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network It wasn't easy to even get Windows running on it. Windows 10 Mobile was 32-bit so you coudn't use any drivers from it. It was pure luck that someone found an engineering device similar to this one that had 64-bit Windows, so they could reverse engineer some drivers. Some devices still don't work, like cameras.
It would take crazy amount of work to get the same level of hardware support with Linux.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network Oh, BTW this support for this GPU is so bad that it is blacklisted in Firefox for HW decoding. Even in Windows it causes random reboots on decoding video. It's very rare, but it happens.
2d accel shoudn't be this complex, but still the "all these years" argument doesn't hold — if the device isn't popular enough there is no one to fix it.

@nerdtronics@mstdn.starnix.network
This cat is at it again, wants me to do some kernel shit (!) to make Linux work on a 7 year old phone (!).

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network Look here: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
This page lists hundreds of devices. And it's, in theory, possible to make each and every one of them work well. But that isn't the case because no one is willing to invest their time in it.
If you want a phone that can run Linux in a usable way, just get one. Why not? 🤷

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network That is a very sane thing to assume if this device wasn't designed with linux in mind.
I don't get where are we going with this? Okay, maybe you can spend some time on it and get the freedreno shit working, maybe you can spend a shit-ton of time to reverse engineer and make a proper device tree… To do what, get other OS running on a seven year old phone? Just get a PinePhone, it's like $200 — it will cost less than your time spent on making it work.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Sure! And scrolling looks like you are doing it over VNC and a dial-up modem connection. It can be fun if wireless network happens to work. And you need some USB device to operate it! Advantages: doesn't run Windows.
That's some nice gadget you've got there! I'm sure you can get a lot of heads turning if you take it outside 🤣

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki You can also install GNU/Linux easily on any Android ARM-based tablet because you at least have some kernel, but you don't have it if it came with Windows.
I didn't put Windows there because I'm shy or I'm only comfortable with using Windows, I've been using Linux (GNU one) since the 90-ies, but because with Linux (the kernel) this thing is fscking useless!

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Oh FFS, why are you doing this to me? 🙏
I have the device, this one doesn't! I'm sure you can run anything easily on Intel-based tablet, but not the ARM-one because there is no devicetree for it. It's some advanced shit, usually SoC maker gives this along with reference kernel to the device maker. Ther person capable of making this on their own can find something better to do.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Got what working, network adapter? Alright we have some slow unaccelerated output, some networking that is unstable… Okay, maybe we can get USB, so some input, now what?
With Windows I can run latest Firefox and watch FullHD moviest from a network storage and with Linux (GNU/Linux or anything actually because the problem is with *the kernel*) I get what, device as enjoyable as logging into a router? Why would I want that? 🤔

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Does this make every ARM-based device that came with Windows have good hardware support by linux (the kernel)? 😏

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network And as it is an ARM device even if kernel supports some hardware you've got to have proper Device Tree. It won't appear out of thin air and no one made one available for a device that was designed to run Windows Mobile. So it's not that easy.

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network I've mentioned networking because I've read that someone got it running. It means that it is at least supported *by the kernel* so in theory you can get it running.
And no, even getting to the login prompt on a device like that doesn't make it useable if you can't have any input (e.g. USB doesn't work).
So my point was that there is no point of installing anything linux including GNU/Linux if most hardware is not supported *by the kernel*.

@Suiseiseki @iska@mstdn.starnix.network
So you started with being strict about Linux — GNU/Linux and now you tell us the "booting linux" means getting to the login prompt? 😏
Booting linux means exactly that — getting kernel to the point when, in theory, it can mount the real root fs and get to starting other os facilities. Your init script may even stop here. Gracefully.
If you get to some sort of busybox prompt, you are far from bringing up the network, but it still counts!

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Sorry, it wasn't out of disrespect 😅
But if we are nitpicking here I don't know what I should explain and what I shouldn't.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Nope, if grub can read the kernel and initrd, the kernel will still boot using the stuff initrd has in it to the point when it should mount the real root.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki initrd is optional, but most linux-based operating systems use it as it has some advantages. For example, you can have filesystem support built as kernel modules, including support for the filesystem your real root partition has. Otherwise you'd have to have them built into the kernel.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki Then a lot of other shit happens, agetty or something similar gets started and you get the login prompt. At last!
Thing is, if real root filesystem is not accessible: block device is not accessible, filesystem is not supported or it is damaged — you won't get the login prompt. But you will still see the errors in *framebuffer* console.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki It sure does! the bootloader reads initrd image and just passes it to the kernel. Kernel doesn't know shit about most file systems at this point. The init itself is in initrd image (so initrd comes first), so are the filesystem modules. Init inserts filesystem modules (and the modules required for the block devices to work) into the kernel then mounts the real root filesystem, now that it has the proper filesystem support and has the block device accessible.

@iska@mstdn.starnix.network @Suiseiseki There is this thing called initrd. Yeah, if you go into nitpicking mode, you can pretend you didn't understand what I was talking about.
Just do dd if=/dev/random of=the-block-device-you-have-your-real-root-partition-on and see how framebuffer works, but you still get no login prompt 😄

@Suiseiseki I didn't mention any login prompt. The fact that framebuffer works doesn't imply login prompt, it doesn't even imply you can access built-in storage and mount the root partition, right?
I get it, you just want to push some agenda, but this doesn't look like a perfect occasion to do it.