fuck it how hard is it to find someone who helps you with doing the things as opposed to helping you enter the state in which it is impossible to do things 💢 💢 💢
@unspeaker
I see what you're doing there — you're covertly inviting unsolicited advice with a post criticising giving unsolicited advice 😏
(I hope this joke isn't too much, but if it is — sorry 😅)
nah, it's just that apparently i have to go through a literal fucking ordeal for the privilege to even have a conversation with somebody
easier when typing because i pause my breathing and not risk breaking down into uncontrollable weeping, screaming, sobbing, shaking, banging head against wall, etc
"working together towards a common goal" which is supposed to be an essential human experience has somehow always ended up like "allowing them to feed on me"
off to bum a smoke... 🚭
well, after spending 1hr in the aforementioned state i decided i deserve to get meself a whole pack
and there goes my 5th attempt to quit smoking for the year 💨
gonna be a right laugh if quitting smoking gives you schizophrenia. or me
s'funny because there's the part of me that wants to have, like, a "normal life"
and then there's the part of me that goes like "you've been to normieland how many times already? havent you learned that it's just cannibal vampire zombies sacrificing each other all the way down, except that some of them also have a sentient being trapped within"
and then there's the part of me that, y'know, codes, earns money, feeds itself, negotiates, carries around those other two dimwits...
@unspeaker
It's not like they are doing it out of intentional malice — they are just "acting naturally". If you play along with it in order to work something out in the short term, expect them to understand that you didn't like it, but let it slide, you'd be gravely disappointed later when they get used to it and start doing it more and more often.
Just like on personal level you have to establish personal space, you have to watch you work relationships to not get out of hand.
@unspeaker
Damn, I still ended up giving unsolicited advice 😅, but I think I know what you're talking about and I think this has happened to me more times than I wish it had. True — acting more bold and establishing where you want to be with people early on might make some of them not like you, but in the long run it's a better strategy than getting along with the wrong people, ultimately losing motivation for it and sliding into a "bad state" of sorts.
the problem i encounter here is that i was pretty much created in this "bad state" to start with, and grew up in a culture where it was normalized
the main things i internalized from my formative experiences are that there's no such thing as boundaries, and that communication is impossible
standing up for myself without being dismissed and/or screamed at until i'm a gibbering mess on the floor? inconceivable
much, much later i learned that not everyone grew up like this. THE FUCKERS
and then there's the people who went through much of the same but lost their integrity along the way, and turned into humanoid creatures that talk a mean game of ideals and compassion but act like you're torturing them any time you try to stand up for your simple right to exist.
11/10 manipulation, contagious, too.
@unspeaker
> 11/10 manipulation, contagious, too
Exactly! Another disappointment of mine is that manipulation also doesn't always come out of intent — people just get used to that, someone did it to them and they start reproducing it faithfully!
You can't even "relax" around these people and act in good faith like it would be comfortable to you — because they are going to twist that anyway, if you come up with an attempt to fix that, it turns into another device they use to manipulate you 😩
@unspeaker
Yes, more or less the same here — this is where the drive for being liked by others stems from. But in the end, even you succeed at that — the prize only makes you feel more hollow, because you end up being surrounded by the wrong people, having to do things that you might not like instead of things you enjoy, very unfulfilling!
Well, if we come from the same mess and to more or less the same conclusions, at least — maybe we aren't wrong this time.
yep.
what you describe is pretty close to one of the dynamics that occurred so that i ended up like this.
thanks for understanding.
this not even about work, more about any form of functioning as a human being in the world beyond "go to work—go to the shops—go to the shitter—go to bed"
i don't really fuck with "intentionality", all these pesky "free will" questions about things that are discursively ascribed as linguistic rituals. they lead nowhere
i prefer to think of these things in terms of behavioral conditioning, signal theory—the mechanics of what actually goes on—exactly what everyone's afraid to examine...
@unspeaker
Yeah, it's like that — it's hard to grasp for those of us who think on more abstract levels and in the longer term, but most people — they function on more… vegetative level if I might say so.
I mentioned intent — because it's one of the greatest disappointment for me personally: most of the time there is no intent, you do something and expect other person to think why you did that, but they only go for the most immediate response.
it's kinda like a firewall. being able to read between the lines already makes you aware of the whole world of psychopathic games which everyone loses in the end
"normies" quite actively reject becoming aware of it all and still largely follow its rules. pretty much how political power works. unless my sources are playing 1 more dimensional chess than they look to be...
really shouldn't have allowed [???] to install me that second hand empathy module tho, only ever works in reverse 🤣
but then again, "boundaries" is a reddit movie from 2015... here's how it actually went down:
"lemme just plant this in your head real quick: what you think never matters, what everyone else things always matters"
"ok, only smart person who is not always moderately hostile but is sometimes VERY friendly and sometimes VERY hostile, whatever you say - it's not like you haven't exhausted and confused me until i have become incapable of consent, anyway"
and then many years of unable to speak except in cryptic nonsense
@unspeaker
NP
Sorry for resorting to giving advice instead of just listening, but… Damn, that's what people do — we have to accept ourselves for who we are, someone's got to do it 🤣
nah it's good to have an actual conversation about these things 😁 (rather than 1 hour of trying to not start screaming my lungs out in the "therapeutic situation")
so many of the "you should just listen" people are actually "you should just shut up" people in disguise, and have nothing to say. the ideas gotta bounce around to establish some sort of picture of the terrain, and that's a hill i'm willing to die on...
@unspeaker
It's not like people would become more understanding any time soon, so you have to state explicitly what you do not like. Of course fixing it at a later stage when they already got the wrong idea that you find it acceptable ain't easy — but not impossible and it's still better course of action than blaming yourself in retrospective for what you could've done. And it's better than relying on substance of any sort for short-term relief. Little-by-little it's possible to fix anything.