Pro Matrix: self hosting, federated
Pro Signal: ease of use, less bugs
I use Matrix + Element for the above reasons, obviously 😎
Signal:
+more popular?
-closed
-discourages federation
Matrix:
+open protocol & implementation, +encourages federation,
-large API surface,
-harder to have a consistent user experience across multiple platforms
Cons for Matrix: Matrix leaks metadata.
Cons for Signal: Signal requires a phone number to be linked to account, server side going closed source
Pros for Matrix: lots of clients to choose from, Can choose server or self host, totally FOSS
@hehemrin S is a centralized service, M is decentralized. S requires a phone number which is used as identifier for contacting one another, M uses IDs similar to email (@yourID:server), S is pretty much a standard messenger that is very easy to use, M is more like a messenger and a chatroom server in one place which can be a bit confusing, S you have one client and one server, M you have several clients, a lot of established servers and you can even host your own server...
@hehemrin Matrix: Doesn't rely on identities managed by global monopolies.
@hehemrin Different tools
@hehemrin we might be a bit biased here
@hehemrin
Pros: Most of my friends use Signal, but Matrix lets me log in from more than one phone.
Cons: Few of my friends use Matrix, but Signal is tied to my phone.
I'd rather use Matrix, but the thing that matters most for any social anything is people.
@hehemrin @JoergSorge Matrix is decentralized and has had a few nasty (security, secrecy, privacy) bugs discovered lately, Signal is centralized and not full open source. Difficult. Threema is used by a lot of well-informed people.
@count @JoergSorge First time I hear, or not remember, Threema.
@hehemrin @JoergSorge that's actually quite interesting - they're not trying to fly under the RADAR at all, and given that you seem to be from the industry I'd have expected you to have encountered them one way or another 🤔
@count @JoergSorge Rather telecom have been my area, partly with ex internal IT-tool owner. But standard tools have been out of my control... so typical tools like Microsoft etc. But as person, I am interested in privacy and security, open source, Linux etc.
@hehemrin For talking to my sisters, who only have a phone ... Signal.
For talking to fellow hackers & internet people? Matrix if I want to have that chatroom immediacy 🙂
For talking to gamers? They're still on Discord and will stay there until costs get too high, which will happen one day. Then they'll all leave and go somewhere else that looks cool, regardless of whether is really is cool or not ...
For talking to tech people who aren't hackers? They'll be on Slack because ... well, they don't really know but they use Slack all the time at work so the client is already installed and somehow they all think they can't have more than one app on their computers at a time ...
@hehemrin
Pro for matrix: you can bridge other services to it, reducing the number of apps needed on your phone
@LivInTheLookingGlass As I understand, the End to end eencryption is broken over the bridge. If I understand correctly, have you seen that as an issue? (still better than no encryption at all, of course, but in comparison to no break)
@hehemrin honestly I don't mind it. I assume if it is on Discord it isn't private, and on Telegram that it's reasonably so. Those are the only services I bridge so far
@LivInTheLookingGlass Oki, fair. For me, I haven't tried bridge (I use Matrix but not much yet), if I try I think it will firstly be WhatsApp.
@hehemrin@social.librem.one signal sucks thats it
@hehemrin@social.librem.one well actually signal sucks but it has much better ux than matrix currently does soo
@fla@mastodon.social @hehemrin@social.librem.one phone number requirement
@ludman1 Aha, oki. This thread is first time I hear about Threema at all. My starting point for pros and cons are that both are used to chat-communicate; which means centralised can be a pro/con.
@hehemrin
Personally I have no Sygnal registration. However I am familar with their functionality. But I host myself a Matrix server for my family and friends. For me this is the most important - can you hosted it yourself.
If someday I can not self-host anymore, then will definitely choose Threema instead Sygnal.
+ threema is Swiss based. Outside of EU.
+ you have to pay for this app, so they can support themselfs without sell your data
+ well audited from independent orgs.
I'd suggest either @session or @threemaapp to most people.
No matter which you choose, it'd be a good idea to have a backup way to reach important contacts.
@hehemrin the decentralized nature of Matrix makes it much more resilient. If the Signal servers are switched off, no communication is possible anymore
But contacts discovery is very complicated on a truely decentralized system. That makes the first minutes in the app very hard for non tech (how can I know which of my contacts are using Matrix?)
Also the UX/UI of Signal is amazing, especially compared to other FOSS
So, as someone pragmatic who wants people to leave whatsapp, I recommend Signal
@fla Pragmatism is often important! I am interested in privacy and security, I indeed know some but is not at all an expert. In reality, it mean I use SMS, iMessage, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, LinkedIn messenger, and probably more. And I do also use Signal and Matrix, but not so often, because the primary goal is the communication with the specific person. But when I can choose, and nudge other, I prefer one Signal and Matrix, of those above. That is shortly my background to the question.
@hehemrin It's not about one size fits all, their #purposes are different:
- #Signal works well as a replacement for #WhatsApp
- #Matrix works well as a replacement for #Slack
It's not about highlighting a few features or deficiencies that allegedly render either Signal or Matrix "superior" or "useless".
You can use Matrix without a mobile phone number. Mobile phone numbers are personal identifiers that are hard to change.
You can keep communication in the intranet with Matrix.
@katzenberger @hehemrin do you have a source for the purpose of Matrix
afaik it doesn't have anything to do with Slack
Not sure what you mean by "source" here. I just find that #spaces and #rooms in #Matrix make a good replacement for #teams and #channels in #Slack.
I find that the purpose of Matrix is to provide spaces for people with a shared interest, with them not necessarily being known in person to each other.
The purpose of Signal, to me, is to enable conversations within groups that would typically share phone numbers in real life (families, parent groups, etc.).
The purpose of Matrix:
"Matrix is an open standard for interoperable, decentralised, real-time communication over IP
- there exists an open standard in the form of the Matrix Specification
- it's interoperable, meaning it is designed to interoperate with other communication systems, and being an Open Standard means it's easy to see how to interoperate with it
- Matrix is decentralised, which means there is no central point - anyone can host their own server and have control over their data
- it is designed to function in real-time, which means it is ideal for building systems that require immediate exchange of data, such as Instant Messaging"
@KitKat @katzenberger I have never used Slack, but I read it as Slack is similar to Facebook groups.
Matrix - built for "realtime", I feel that is similar to Signal and Facebook Messenger and Fb Groups. (I bring in Fb as comparison as it is a sw I use frequently). Pro for Fb is that very many use it, a con is its privacy.
I understand the purpose difference view by katzenberger for Matrix and Signal, seems reasonable, at the same time seems as both can do both.
@hehemrin You could also just use the messaging platform that works with literally everybody with an internet connection. https://pocketnow.com/10-ways-delta-chat-is-better-than-whatsapp-signal-and-telegram/
@adam Thanks, yes, maybe Delta is the answer.
Thank you all who have answered my question in this thread (Pros and cons; Signal versus Matrix?)! Answers have included Threema is the answer. I have gained new knowledge and thoughts. Thanks! #Signal #Matrix #Threema