@jeffcliff @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo IT TAKES GAS TO REPLACE THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE IT RUN ON GAS
THE FACTORIES THAT MAKE BATTERIES RUN ON GAS
THE EARTH MOVING MACHINES THAT MINE LITHIUM RUN ON GAS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MOVES THE COMPONENTS AROUND FOR MANUFACTURE RUNS ON GAS

THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T RUN ON GAS -- DOESN'T EXIST
IN ORDER TO MAKE IT -- YOU NEED TO BURN GAS, NOW
THERE IS NO GAS TO BURN IT

YOU SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE THE "large, technical problems that need to be solved in the meanwhile"
AND YOU SEEM TO BE LABORING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEBODY OUT THERE IS WORKING TO SOLVE THEM

@nugger @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff People far more capable that I have looked at the numbers and thr known reserves of copper and lithium are not sufficient to convert all mobility (vars, trucks, trains, plane and boats) to electric, even if you are using plug-in serial hybrid vehicles. The materials just don't exist.

We face an energy delima: a problem with zero solutions.

We are going to lose capability. The only question is how much and where ae the losses going to occur.

I think the most optimistic guy writing about it is John Michael Greer and his book titles flip flop from Dark Age America to The Eco-Technic Future

@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @nugger @jeffcliff Honestly, I don't think there is anyone with the ability to blunt the fall we are going to have. Best I can see is taking individual action to try and blunt the impact so we retain as much of the knowledge we have now so we don't have to spend time and effort rediscovering things as basic as the steam engine, electricity, radio and electronic computing.

@Ottovonshitpost @ImperialAgent @confederatehobo @jeffcliff @nugger Besides retaining knowledge, securing reliable energy (coppice/energy crops, wind/solar/hydro, and/or geothermal), reducing energy requirements and securing materials is next. Recycling and reducing/eliminating single-use disposables is part of that. Burn materials for energy instead of landfilling.

Localizing production and manufacturing so that long-distance transport is optional and no longer a basic requirement. Revitalize cottage industries. Reverse off-shoring.

Use climate change or peak oil as a bludgeon to do so, even if you think it's fake, if that's what it takes to gets the job done.

@teknomunk @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff

So your solution is what every socialist nation has tried to do

@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @nugger @jeffcliff No. "What every socialist nation has tried to do" is a top-down decree on mostly unwilling people or people expecting a free lunch that can't possibly have the information needed to succeed.

There isn't the political will for that at any level.

Individuals and groups still mostly retain the ability to act in their local sphere and everthing I suggested can be done at that level, just at a smaller scale than you are probably thinking off.

I recommend the climate change/peak oil as a conversational club to use against those liberals in your area that would oppose such measures (i.e. you, someone who claims that climate change is a problem, oppose this thing that aboslutely would help?)

@teknomunk @societyoutcasts @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @confederatehobo @nugger @jeffcliff Just to piggyback on that, globalism runs on cheap energy, and cheap diesel specifically. High diesel prices act effectively as a tariff on products that are far away from their point of production. This hit home this year when the price of our egg production inputs went up, maybe, 10% while the price of eggs at Walmart went up 200-300%. All of the sudden our farm fresh niche pricey eggs were (way) cheaper than what GloboPedo could do because they had to pay for the trucks to ship the eggs around the country through their distribution network. It was the same with everything, "buying local" went from a minor decision by the likes of Moneybags EvilSandmich to something *everyone* was doing.

I won't dig too deep into but there was definitely a slight uptick in community cohesiveness due to this, which makes me interested to see just how far GloboPedo will bite into their energy cost-ramp plans since it so clearly goes against their interests.

@EvilSandmich @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff

That's not happening where I am. Eggs from local sources are still 2-3x the price of store bought

@societyoutcasts @confederatehobo @ImperialAgent @Ottovonshitpost @teknomunk @nugger @jeffcliff Yeah I've seen that too....well I've seen both. I don't care about being cheaper than the grocery store because I just want to get the stupid eggs out of our house*. A lot of people though just scale it against the market regardless of what their input costs are. The other anecdote I have is that the higher prices charged by the local butcher (for better product, natch) stayed largely the same while the prices for the inferior stuff from the grocery store rose to be about the same price (apart from the GloboPedo beef steaks from Mexico that taste like sadness).

*(Our plan all along was to have our own farm fresh eggs and to just charge people who buy eggs the feed costs because the other (large) expenses (coops, chickens, other infrastructure, etc.) is stuff we'd buy for ourselves anyway. I'd imagine most other small-scale farmers actually want to make money on them, which really isn't feasible. If I was able to charge $5/dozen then *maybe*. Somewhat related, the Vital Farms eggs sold at Whole Foods are the closest you can get to "farm fresh" from the grocery store (all the other ones are pretenders, work paid for me to sample them) and it looks like they're about $7/dozen around me).

@EvilSandmich

That sounds like a good idea. It'd be nice to have your own fresh eggs to eat.
$7 a dozen is about the price for farm fresh eggs around here. Sometimes higher
Although not as good a product, at local grocery store 30 eggs for $9