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@thor
>how much hell do you want to let loose?
It's not about me wanting to let hell loose. It's me not being naive enough to think that you can repeatedly insult a large proportion of your demographic like that, without repercussions.
Singing a psalm during sex is basically the equivalent of smearing some Islamic symbol with pig fat.
>most of the muslims don't object to how we live
What does that have to do with anything? The question is, is your society repeatedly insulting the fundamentals of their religion? Cause I think they'd have a few notable reactions if you did.
The issue isn't if Muslims like how Christians live, or the other way around. The issue is that part of western society, that is clearly not very religious, is repeatedly throwing some very cheap and sleazy shots only at Christianity, and expecting them to take it forever, like a battered wife.
Do you think that is healthy for society? I don't.
>you can try to incite controversy with provocative statements
I'm provocative? I'd say that radio ad you mentioned is far more provocative than anything I've said lately.
>do you wish to die on that hill, fighting that battle?
Do I want to die on a hill of society not being hypocritical, and applying double standards to its population? Absolutely yes. If that is what it takes, I'd give my life gladly.
@alyx
Should it not be the other way round — Islam should be made more secular, not Christianity more strict?
It is often radicalized on purpose. Muslims can be just as "tame" and tolerant as Christians in developed countries, here is a great movie on this subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Path
Core value of Christianity is exactly turning the other cheek — being tolerant, core value of Islam is about self dignity, being a worthy person.
@thor
@m0xee @thor
Sure, Islam should be made more secular. But that's not what the Western world is currently demanding of it. Criticism of Muslims and Islam seems at an all time low recently.
If you think I want Christianity to be more strict, or to return to more fundamental practices, I don't. Don't misunderstand me. I'm just not naive, to think that the way we non-religious or non-Christians are treating them and their faith can't or won't have a consequence, in the form of an undesirable backlash. And I don't think it's gonna be something as simple as they'll make their own religion more strict. What I fear is on the level of political ramifications.
Criticize Christianity where it needs to be criticized, cause there are still things that deserve criticism. But attacks like this, really serve no purpose other than being antagonistic and blasphemous on purpose.
If it were an one-off, or if it were applied equally to all major religions, I wouldn't care. But I'm seeing more and more such cheap shots targeted at Christians lately, from what I can only assume are members of my overall non-religious "tribe", that I simply do not agree with, and I feel compelled by my own values to say something.
@alyx
Yeah, I think I misunderstood you, sorry. Like I said, provoking some community just for kicks is wrong, but self-censorship to keep everyone happy is wrong too, proper balance should be found. I think we agree here.
But I don't think the West should _make_ Muslims be more secular. It's a natural process that happens as standards of living rise. Radical Islam most often comes from war-torn countries where people live in poverty.
@alyx
I've seen this process in reverse in Russia, where the standards of living have been declining for quite a while and Orthodox Christianity is on the rise. With support from the state of course. Only a few years ago TaTu girls came out of this country, and they _were_ popular domestically, now people get arrested for shooting video, where cathedral is seen in the background — because it offends someone. That's just bullshit!
@alyx
Religion, but not real faith, often becomes a weapon in political fight or in strive for staying in power. Populism is now on the rise throughout the world and politicians will always fish in these muddy waters to polarize society. The best we can do, I think, is maintaining level head and not making enemies of each other.
@alyx
Burqas and preventing women from making music may be tradition, but it has nothing to do with faith or core values and while doing something to provoke some community to "troll" them is wrong, resurrecting some medieval traditions in your own community to outdo them is wrong on whole other level. I don't want to got back to the times of crusades and I don't think it's the path we should be taking.
@thor