@elmiko they're expensive and fragile (as companies). It's good that we have them but it's not enough


@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology Voting with money, supporting companies like these, making them less fragile and their products less expensive, sounds like a more plausible plan to me than sabotaging MS into not being evil (?!) 🤔

@m0xee @elmiko exactly how would that work, when the largest companies and governments on earth are supporting Microsoft?

@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology It already worked! MS is far from being a friend of free software, but MS we have today is a shadow of its former self. I remember the days when there was no Purism, no System 76, no linux support for most hardware — chances were good that even your wired network adapter won't work. And MS could shove just about anything down your throat.
It's not like that anymore. As average Joe moves to mobile MS is close to being irrelevant.

@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology And MS doesn't feed on support from governments and enterprises, MS exists off your money. Not directly, but still. So that is how it would work — buy a computer that comes with linux. Tell the market what you want instead of adapting to it yourself by buying a system designed for Windows and installing Linux on it. Capitalism kinda works in this case. Even HP has models like Dev One which comes with Linux — looks like a decent piece of hardware to me 🤷

@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology Would you be willing to elaborate?

@m0xee @elmiko Microsoft makes most of its money from enterprises. companies generally do not give much of a shit about what consumers want because, especially in this space, they can dictate what's available, and they choose to make the things that are most profitable to them available. People who care about this make up a small minority of consumers at most.

You are being hopelessly optimistic here.

@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology You are right, it does make most money from enterprises, but if you take a look at revenue structure you'll see that "cloud" stuff is a huge part of it. They are changing their business model precisely because you can't stay profitable just by selling Windows and Office licenses anymore.
Windows is still a major player in education, but MS is jumping through hoops to prevent Chromebooks from eating into their market share.
True, I am optimistic, but I'm not unreasonable.

@tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology I think I digressed and didn't make a point. You are right, consumer market is not the only thing keeping them afloat. But we do not want to kill MS off completely, do we? 😅
We just want them to stop influencing consumer market by pushing Windows aggressively, I think we can. They gave up on Edge and went with their Chrome clone, they gave up on Windows 10 Mobile and went with Android. They can still sell their hardware running Windows and have their enterprise cake, no problem!

@m0xee @tindall @elmiko There's nothing wrong with trying to vote with your dollar and trying to support better alternatives, I certainly do, but the fact is that these companies act the way they do because that is what's most successful given the ruleset handed down by capitalism. Actual regulation or, better yet, ditching capitalism entirely are the only ways to actually begin to address the problem here.

Those with disposable income can do all they want to support companies trying to do the right thing, but even with that they'll never be able to compete with the low costs that become possible from extracting every cent possible like the giants do.

@vanilla @tindall @elmiko@mastodon.technology Buying from companies that squeeze every cent including by paying workers less is not a proper way to abolish capitalism 😋
If you are low on funds just buy older hardware — used hardware. This way you do not support evil corporations AND help reducing e-waste. I'm still using an HP laptop from 2013 myself. I've upgraded RAM to 16 gigs, added a 1Tb SSD, installed — and it is extremely good at everything I throw at it except for 4k video!

@m0xee The thing is, neither is buying from System 76 or Pine64 or getting everything used. You're not going to ethically consume your way out of this problem.

I'd certainly encourage people to buy used: it means less waste! I'd also encourage them to buy hardware that is more open: it means they get devices which respect them! There are real benefits! But there is no future where a ton of people choose to put their financial realities aside and flip the industry on its head by simply buying something else. It will not happen, ever.

Open hardware and free software are beautiful things, but they can't change the world on their own.

@vanilla I agree, we can't solve every problem out there with this, but we already did a lot to shake the Intel-Microsoft monopoly. Google got more dangerous than MS ever was in the process, but that's a different story.
We have somewhat open hardware, free ROMs for phones and truly free smartphones by Purism and Pine64, we have federated social networks and federated IM. Yes, most people don't use better alternatives, but honestly, I don't see modern world as some kind dystopia tech-wise.

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