@malwaretech
Really? I hadn't heard of any anti-semitic or socialist posts from him. What exactly did he say that was nazi related?
@jlcrawf @malwaretech socialism isn't Naziism please don't make me explain this to you
@Leroy @malwaretech
Sure, explain to me how the National Socialists weren't "real" socialists.
@jlcrawf @malwaretech they weren't socialists at all. They adopted the word socialism to seem cool to the less informed working class people in the wake of post-WWI economic struggles. The "national" in "national socialism" is what you should be looking at aka nationalism which is a component of fascism, which was the actual Nazi ideology.
@Leroy @malwaretech
This is not an explanation of how they were not socialist. This is you simply stating that they were not. I am still waiting for my explanation.
@jlcrawf @malwaretech it is an explanation. That's all there was to it. It was a grift. It got them into power, then they showed their true colors. I even gave you some historical context. I shouldn't have to define socialism and nationalism in order for you to be able to participate in this discussion, the definitions for both are readily available on the internet.
And before you say it because everyone else I've ever had this talk with (and I hope you're different but I'm sure you're not) is a horseshoe theory enjoyer, horseshoe theory is bullshit, fish hook theory forever. Anything right of center is guaranteed to have awful fascist philosophy behind it in some way, whether covertly or blatantly.
@Leroy @malwaretech
Again, you saying it does not make it true. If the National Socialists were not "real" socialists, then it should be very simple to say, the tenets of socialism are ....., the nazis believed ......., they failed at socialism because ......
You have not done that. You keep saying that they are not socialists, but you have done absolutely nothing to expalin why.
@Leroy @malwaretech
Thank you. In our entire dialogue, this is the first actual argument for why nazis were not socialist. I am at work now, so, I will respond to the actual argument later, but I just wanted to thank you for trying to provide one rather than simply stick with "because I said so"
@jlcrawf @malwaretech I don't appreciate the fact that telling you that historically the initial Nazi movement was a grift to get workers on board with nationalism isn't somehow a real argument to you. It's like the political version of your parents sneaking broccoli into foods you like to get you to eat more vegetables, except instead of broccoli they fed you arsenic
@Leroy @malwaretech
I could say that Black Lives Matter is a grift, because they clearly do not care about black lives.
I could say that Antifa is a grift because they are clearly a fascist organization.
But if I do not explain how that BLM does not care about black lives or if I do not explain how Antifa is fascist, it is merely me saying so.
In the same way, you saying that the nazis were using socialism as a grift is not an argument if you do not explain how they were not socialist.
@jlcrawf @malwaretech ok you're definitely a bad actor after that one
@Leroy @malwaretech
I am confused about how my using your exact argument with other groups makes me a bad actor.
Does this not show the fallacy in your argument?
The point was to show that saying somebody is a grift is not valid without presenting any evidence that they are indeed a grift.
In the case of this discussion, it would seem to be fairly simple to show where the ideology of nazism is different than the ideology of socialism. Something that you have yet to even attempt to do.
"Fascism is when authority is centralized."
This is such a stupid take. The national socialists EXPLICITLY were not monarchists, nor were they theocrats.
@Leroy @malwaretech
There is no question that the nazis consolidated their power, however, I am having difficulty coming up with an example of a socialist country that has not consolidated their power to a central government. Quite often with dictatorships. While this may not be the ideal socialist model, it is the most used socialist model and hardly enough to disqualify them from being considered socialist.
I always find it fascinating when people try to make "Socialism" into something cohesive, something categorized.
"the end justifies the means" is not a cohesive or even a rational practice.
Turning every and all aspects of civic live into political activism is not sustainable, it will destroy any civilization.
"Vote Blue No Matter Who" is a totalitarian political policy.
Please stop trying to make Socialism work...
Most communities in the USA functioned well enough before the Socialists showed up.
@jlcrawf @malwaretech socialism is about putting more control in the hands of the people, particularly in relation to labor. The Nazis clearly didn't do that. They consolidated all the power upward to their God Emperor so he could create a eugenicist ethnostate