Imagine claiming that the people saying you shouldn't have a history of sexual harassment were "puritanically obsessed", and then claiming that RMS' lifestyle is good because he never uses non-free software

@silverwizard Let me recommend this again: https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

@eliasr What does that contribute to the discourse beyond "Well he never sexually harassed me"?

@silverwizard You asked the same yesterday, then I answered, then it seemed you were not really interested after all. The point i am trying to get across is that it is good to get informed first, before throwing around accusations. To understand why that is a good idea, maybe try thinking about what it would be like if someone accused you of something, without caring if claims were true or not. Treat others as you would like others to treat you.

@eliasr Do you remember the events? Seriously, do you remember 2019? Or did you just read a blog post?

Also - have you answered my question? Since, you keep providing me a very biased and minimizing blog post as the ultimate authority.

@silverwizard I am not talking about any "ultimate authority", I just recommend that you read it. If you have read it, then that is good. If you have read it and it made no difference to you, that would be surprising to me.

Not sure exactly what you mean by remembering the events 2019. I remember RMS resigned and that it seemed to be in large part due to people getting the wrong idea about what was written in that email thread, but maybe you mean something else?

@eliasr Why do you think I didn't read it, after I commented on the contents?

Do you remember this? ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/… how about this? selamjie.medium.com/remove-ric…

Do you remember listening to women in the Free Software movement? Or, more importantly, women kept out of the Free Software movement?

@silverwizard I was not sure if you had read it, now I understand that you have. Good. Thank you.

Yes, I did read the statement by Bradley M. Kuhn. I like him very much and I appreciate this specific statement from him as well. Note that he does not make baseless accusations of any kind. He writes that RMS took a useful step by resigning. I tend to agree with that.

About the Selam G post... (to be continued)

@silverwizard About the Selam G post "Remove Richard Stallman: Appendix A", note that it shows the headline "Renowned MIT Scientist Defends Epstein: Victims Were ‘Entirely Willing’" and describes that as doing a "great job covering" things. As you and I both know, that headline is deceitful, the statement is simply not true. Yes it is held up as "great". That kind of disregard for facts is very harmful to honest discussion, in my opinion. (to be continued)

@silverwizard So to summarize what I wanted to say about those two links you mentioned: the Bradley M. Kuhn text is very good, I appreciate you bringing that up, but the Selam G text is not good, it is either very careless or deliberately dishonest. I hope I have succeeded in explaining why I think this. Do you understand what I mean about those two texts?

@eliasr Ok - so you dislike that people say that Stallman defended Epstein when he was uncareful in his statements defending Minsky. Therefore you believe that in order to be acceptable they must be 100% careful in their speech. Otherwise, the original person who wasn't careful is therefore entirely in the right.

Therefore you disregard the many more interesting statements than picking apart Stallman's writing, and instead the people who actively criticize his *specific actions*?

@silverwizard Let me explain the situation this way:

You make a very serious allegation.

I assume we agree that when making an accusation, especially such a serious one, the accuser needs to present evidence.

When you present evidence that comes in the form of the Selam G post, which has as its centerpiece something that we both know is a lie.

(to be continued)

@silverwizard If you wanted to convince me, you would be better off to show something that does not have a lie in the center. It hurts the credibility of the rest of the information. It would have been much better to stay with facts.

Do you agree that when a serious allegation is made, it falls on the accuser to present solid basis for that accusation?

Do you agree that it is important to provide a basis for the allegation that is based on facts?

(to be continued)

@silverwizard If you agree to the above (that an accuser needs to present evidence and that the evidence should be based on facts, not lies, and that this is even more important if the allegation is serious), then I think you will also understand why I am not convinced and why it seems strange to me that you keep throwing such accusations when you apparently do not have a solid basis for them.

@eliasr Ok, so you don't believe Stallan's accusers.

Which of hundreds of accounts do you dislike? Do you feel that you are a court of law and the burden of proof is that of a court of law? Do you feel that women are often victimized by powerful men? If so, do you think that is bad? Is protecting Stallman worth hurting women? If so, how many?

@silverwizard But now you are trying to somehow put the burden of proof on me, remember that you are the one making very serious allegations, then you are also the one who needs to present the basis you have for that.

The text by Bradley M. Kuhn that you referred to is great but it does not provide grounds for the accusations you are making. Then you had the Selam G text but that had that falsehood as a central part.

(to be continued)

@silverwizard So I wonder now, what is the grounds for the accusations you are making? Please be specific, and stick to things that are true.

@eliasr I am not making accusations. I am believing others.
You are attempting to dissuade me of my belief.

@silverwizard Well you have been writing several times about RMS and "sexual harassment", but do I understand correctly now that you mean you are not accusing anyone of sexual harassment? You are just insinuating, and then you have no responsibility, you don't need to have any basis for that?

Even if you say you are not making accusations, your words matter.

Will you continue to spread the Selam G post even though you know about the significant falsehood it contains?