demos in , it is sadly ironic how often they say "safe and ethical": youtube.com/watch?v=XEM5qz__HO

Looks like the SAGE mentality is alive and well in the US military industrial context, and the is still driving it. For example, that demo shows they still pretend to be able to get perfect info to feed their centralized, automated overview. This chapter from the book Closed World gives good insight into the mentality of this kind of project: web.archive.org/web/2001111602

@eighthave they have solutions that will find battlefield problems - though these may be costly.
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@indyradio A classic example comes from SAGE during the Vietnam War: the US wired up all sorts of sensors along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The Vietnamese figured out they had mics and urine sensors. So they'd play recordings of trucks next to the mics, and spray urine on the sensors, then run away and watch the US drop millions of dollars of bombs on places where they were not. The US chalked these up as kills, until they noticed they counted more kills than all the gear the Vietnamese had in total.

@eighthave This story is important in several ways. I don't know where to start.
@eighthave At one time, I had a large portion of the Pentagon Papers. You're supposed to drop as many bombs as possible, or your funding might be cut next fiscal year. This practice did not end with Vietnam, or the Ellsberg revelations. I accidentally obtained a document from Ft. Bragg in 2005 with exactly such a warning, hurry and spend your budget, the end is near (basically). Let's just say, my previous effort is in the WayBack Machine w/out that document. They stole it back.

@indyradio yeah, I think it is totally clear that happens in the Defense Dept, since that pattern happens in any organization I've worked in. Except that of course in the military's situation, "budget" also means destroying stuff and killing people.

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