Anyone in the #PostmarketOS community able to recommend some good "hands on" or (kinda) guided way to learn how to port it to new devices and get to know all of the low level stuff required for it?

Like get this very cheap dev board or phone and this old version of the code and then follow along all of the steps involved in getting #Linux to run on this hardware? (Best for both cases when you have documentation and circuit diagrams and when you don't)

It's such a complex topic that I feel lost

@agowa338 I don't think there can ever be an effective guide like this. The first step is always "get to know your particular hardware well", and that's what determines what and how will have to be done next.

@dos Well it would obviously be a guide containing a trial and error process to "get to know" the "particular hardware well".
But I currently get lost in all of that. I don't even know where to start or what I would have to look for or even what I could do in order to do that (sanely).
Like if I have datasheets, ok I guess but what information do I need from there?

@agowa338 But the answer is still: it depends. What's the existing software support for the SoC and peripherals? How similar is it to already supported ones? How does the boot process look like? What resources you have available to base your research on? This all varies greatly device-to-device and if there was a guide it would have been already done.

If I were to write a guide, it would be: start with small steps on existing ports, observe others working, and you'll get there eventually.

@dos Of course. But if you don't know what it depends upon or how do account for the variables it is a lost battle.

Just for example pentesting is similar. You also don't know what to look for before you find it but still there are things and "workflows" (in a lack of a better word) you can use to approach it.

I currently don't even know what I don't know...

@dos
Oh and btw that's kinda why I imagined the guide to start with "buy this cheap dev board or phone" and use this older version of the code base (where support for it was not yet implemented). And basically replicate the entire process using that guide on your side. With all of the questions and considerations laid out in plain sight.

@agowa338 I really have no better idea than "observe what's missing and try to fill the gaps, then repeat". What needs to be done will be very different across devices, and you'll have to rely on having wide enough background knowledge to connect the dots.

Pretty much all existing ports, including Librem 5 and PinePhone, still have plenty of low hanging fruits to deal with. That's what you'd start with to get to know the stack. Also: browse the commits, especially those beyond your grasp *yet*.

@dos
> wide enough background knowledge to connect the dots.

Yea, hence the wish for such a guide. Even it is only for a particular device it'll still show the journey and will massively simplify asking the right questions instead of just "how do I get linux to work on a device it currently doesn't work on?" (which is not actionable and not helpful).

I don't expect such a guide do at least go through the process once and know where all of the moving parts are to see the bigger picture.

@dos

Maybe it's yet again one of these "differences in learning between bottom-up and top-down".

I know some people learn best by starting with the fundamentals individually and then later on being able to glue them together. But for me I need to get the final problem first and then start learning all of the components one by one. Like a puzzle where you first look at what you'd like to be creating.

@agowa338 My impression would be that knowing the fundamentals individually is just required for this kind of tasks. Sure, you could probably get away without it on some subset of devices that are similar enough to what's already supported, but otherwise you'll either end up outsourcing what's actually hard about it to people you'll be asking for help, or you won't really do much.

@agowa338 That said, it's not like it's some kind of black magic only to be known by insiders either. If you play with microcontrollers, can write and debug a I2C driver, set up clocks, find your way in the device tree and hack your phone's kernel and/or u-boot on an existing port, you should already be able to do plenty of useful work on a brand new port just on your own.

@dos I can do a bunch of these things individually, but I have absolutely no clue "why" it would be required for this or "how" all of these come together.

And ngl, learning I2C and such without having anything that already works to tinker with is also a huge pain. But Ben Eater https://www.youtube.com/@BenEater was a huge help to get started. You get something working to start with and shown all of the basic tools you'd need and can adventure out from there on your own.

@agowa338 That's why I'm talking about hacking on existing ports so much. It gives tangible results right away while operating in the same knowledge space.

@dos I see your point. I'm also not saying "No" to it. It'll be what I'll do as no such guid exists yet.

However I hope you can see why I think such a guide would be a huge help, too. Like right now even if I'd try to start to work on any of these there are so many unknowns and no way to even know what individual pieces exist or how they come together that it is quite challenging to get started or even know what you can do...