@Elfie @0 @petit @terryenglish
untagging bagofshit because they seem done with the thread.
>under socialism co-ops are impossible because citizen aid becomes a state controlled affair
This.
Cooperation is voluntary. Socialism is necessarily involuntary. I'm glad the Floridian's town-run grocery worked out for them, but it doesn't scale up. In a sufficiently socialist system, such co-ops become illegal because the resources and labor involved would be considered a private enterprise.
I'm much more a fan of local government than national, however, as it is much closer to the consent of the governed. When "the public interest" is decided by distant bureaucrats that will not experience the outcomes of their decisions, it becomes the "occupying power" that Jimmy Dore was describing.
It's baffling how they twist it like:
Everything good that private citizens do => socialism
Everything bad that is done that required government to do => capitalism
I wonder why the grocery store shut down, instead of simply raising prices to stay in business? Regulations perhaps?
Why didn't someone start a busing service to the city 10 miles away? Regulations perhaps?
What happens when the town grocery store hires more employees than it needs (friends of current employees), and raises taxes to pay them? Why would they do that? Why would a capitalist exploit? It's just humans in groups: Humans in government, humans in businesses. The difference is that the government approach is non-voluntary for those who pay taxes.
untagging bagofshit because they seem done with the thread.
>under socialism co-ops are impossible because citizen aid becomes a state controlled affair
This.
Cooperation is voluntary. Socialism is necessarily involuntary. I'm glad the Floridian's town-run grocery worked out for them, but it doesn't scale up. In a sufficiently socialist system, such co-ops become illegal because the resources and labor involved would be considered a private enterprise.
I'm much more a fan of local government than national, however, as it is much closer to the consent of the governed. When "the public interest" is decided by distant bureaucrats that will not experience the outcomes of their decisions, it becomes the "occupying power" that Jimmy Dore was describing.
It's baffling how they twist it like:
Everything good that private citizens do => socialism
Everything bad that is done that required government to do => capitalism
I wonder why the grocery store shut down, instead of simply raising prices to stay in business? Regulations perhaps?
Why didn't someone start a busing service to the city 10 miles away? Regulations perhaps?
What happens when the town grocery store hires more employees than it needs (friends of current employees), and raises taxes to pay them? Why would they do that? Why would a capitalist exploit? It's just humans in groups: Humans in government, humans in businesses. The difference is that the government approach is non-voluntary for those who pay taxes.
@aven @Elfie @0 @terryenglish My understanding is that the trade unions and other support structures created by labor during the 20th century were called socialist by their proponents and opponents. However, many labor movements were coopted into political parties that recycled the term "socialism". Anarchist socialism sounds like any oxymoron today, but at the time it made sense. The old meaning of "socialism" persists because so many influential books used it.
@terryenglish @0 @aven @Elfie Yes, Americans have a unique meaning for libertarian. Chomsky has a nice little rant about this in On Anarchism. I think the American meaning might be becoming internationally accepted through the internet.
