@toiletpaper @softwarepagan Is Ukraine really that full of that kind of Nazi that it justifies invasion or was that just Putin looking for an excuse?

@Hyolobrika @softwarepagan @toiletpaper both (according to a ukranian person i know). It's an excuse and the invasion is illegitimate but there are a lot of nazis on both sides.

@lizzy @softwarepagan @toiletpaper What are these Nazis doing? Are they trying to take over and enact a genocide? Are they committing violence against people they don't like? Are they just like the "nazis" in the West who often turn out just to be mildly right-wing people who, say, don't support abortion, or something like that (I remember in the pre-deepfake era watching a video of pro-life protestors in America receiving violence from people in black covering their faces, which to my knowledge is something antifa does).

You have to remember Ukrainian history. In the depths of the Holodomor, it was german panzers rolling east to the russian front that liberated them from certain horrible death under the heel of the soviets. That is still in living memory, and many younger ukrainians grew up hearing about it from their parents and grandparents. A lot of ukrainians genuinely idolize the nazis.

I don't think that is really putin's justification for invading, I think that was just a troll.

@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy But they have a Jewish president. So it can't be that bad.

>Putin was trolling about the Nazis
So we have powerful politicians capable of great violence trolling about the justifications for that violence? Fucking great.

@Hyolobrika
> But they have a Jewish president
Not everyone being labelled a Nazi, even those accepting it and adopting swastikas hates the Jews, every group picks their own target as enemy. E.g. this crowd in US often hates black people, but e.g. here in Russia those who love swastikas — they don't care about them, they don't see them much here.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy

@Hyolobrika
I mean they do hate "black people" — but these people have nothing to do with Africans, AFAIR Hitler himself wasn't hostile towards those, it's just a US thing 🤷
So it's to each their own — in each country these groups pick their own "outsiders", e.g. I can imagine far-right groups in Poland being tolerant towards Jews, but not Gypsies or Arabs.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy

@Hyolobrika
And with Ukraine in particular — sure, right-wing groups always existed, there are those openly adopting swastikas fighting on Russian side, despite the state adopting the whole WW2 rhetoric and claiming fighting Nazis — don't look for consistency here 😩
Some were extremely hostile towards Russians, but these groups were hardly as numerous as Russian state propaganda had been putting it, and they were never influencing the state politics.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy