geopol, nazi/antifa discourse
You have to remember Ukrainian history. In the depths of the Holodomor, it was german panzers rolling east to the russian front that liberated them from certain horrible death under the heel of the soviets. That is still in living memory, and many younger ukrainians grew up hearing about it from their parents and grandparents. A lot of ukrainians genuinely idolize the nazis.
I don't think that is really putin's justification for invading, I think that was just a troll.
>Putin was trolling about the Nazis
So we have powerful politicians capable of great violence trolling about the justifications for that violence? Fucking great.
@Hyolobrika
> But they have a Jewish president
Not everyone being labelled a Nazi, even those accepting it and adopting swastikas hates the Jews, every group picks their own target as enemy. E.g. this crowd in US often hates black people, but e.g. here in Russia those who love swastikas — they don't care about them, they don't see them much here.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
I mean they do hate "black people" — but these people have nothing to do with Africans, AFAIR Hitler himself wasn't hostile towards those, it's just a US thing 🤷
So it's to each their own — in each country these groups pick their own "outsiders", e.g. I can imagine far-right groups in Poland being tolerant towards Jews, but not Gypsies or Arabs.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
> Who do Ukrainian (and Russian) neo-Nazis hate?
At this point — mostly each other 😅
> What does "black people" mean then.
That is quite funny actually! In Russia those coming from the broader Caucasus region are being called black, so e.g. in US on pedestrian level Caucasian means white, but in Russia it means black 🤣
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
And with Ukraine in particular — sure, right-wing groups always existed, there are those openly adopting swastikas fighting on Russian side, despite the state adopting the whole WW2 rhetoric and claiming fighting Nazis — don't look for consistency here 😩
Some were extremely hostile towards Russians, but these groups were hardly as numerous as Russian state propaganda had been putting it, and they were never influencing the state politics.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
So yeah, lots of Russians have been played here, the reason — they've never been in Ukraine. I've been in Kyiv several times and I was always treated in a friendly manned, at times better than I could be in Moscow even, by random people who never knew me. I knew that people who are hostile do exist — they do everywhere, but I also knew that this is far from common and I was never buying the Nazi thing.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
But the worst part — with Pootin having done this, in a way he confirmed that those hating Russian had been right the entire time, and of course I expect this to get worse, younger Ukrainians would naturally be more hostile, unlikely to treat Russians in a friendly manner any time soon.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
