okay just rebooted
it was so bad that it couldn't keep up with TTY
@iska They don't exist. These cosmic masons are just processes that you haven't kill -9'd yet.
@p@fsebugoutzone.org @m0xee@social.librem.one you reminded me to do a btrfs snapshot
@realman543 @iska @m0xee One of these days I either going to port fossil to non-FUSE Linux or I'm going to get the fuck out of Unix entirely.
@p@fsebugoutzone.org @realman543@annihilation.social @m0xee@social.librem.one every day I yearn for the latter :darkness:
@p@fsebugoutzone.org @m0xee@social.librem.one @realman543@annihilation.social 
is unix, just moreso. You know I'm not a fan of that
@iska @m0xee @realman543 It's not Unix, but even if you think it's basically Unix, when I say I'm dumping Unix, this means dumping Linux/BSD for Plan 9.
@iska
What did you expect, giant distributed microkernel-based LISP machine running exclusively on NUMA-enabled Itanium cores? 🫠
@m0xee @iska @realman543
> What did you expect, giant distributed microkernel-based LISP machine running exclusively on NUMA-enabled Itanium cores?
I may as well douse my computer in gasoline, unplug all the fans, and sacrifice my eyebrows so that I can huff the rare-earth minerals for enlightenment.
I'm more likely to boot to a Forth environment on a Z-80 than a microkernel LISP on an Itanic. One of those brings with it the promise of at some point performing I/O.
> What did you expect, giant distributed microkernel-based LISP machine running exclusively on NUMA-enabled Itanium cores?
I may as well douse my computer in gasoline, unplug all the fans, and sacrifice my eyebrows so that I can huff the rare-earth minerals for enlightenment.
I'm more likely to boot to a Forth environment on a Z-80 than a microkernel LISP on an Itanic. One of those brings with it the promise of at some point performing I/O.
@p
> Forth environment on a Z-80
That shit I came up with was somewhat hard to challenge, but you did! Respect! 😂
I'm just poking @iska for fun — pretty sure that it would be something more practical (but still unusable by the standards of a normal human being)
@realman543
@m0xee @iska @realman543
> somewhat hard to challenge,
Is it? I spend a lot of time thinking about living in a Forth environment on an old-timey chip.
> somewhat hard to challenge,
Is it? I spend a lot of time thinking about living in a Forth environment on an old-timey chip.
@p
Strange that you don't own a PowerMac G5 rig then — having Forth right in OpenFirmare sounds cool if you're into that thing. To be honest, to me it's in the same category LISP is in though — something fun, but impractical 😅
As for Z80: https://oldbytes.space/@millihertz/112620912045955111
To me it doesn't even bear any nostalgic value: I didn't own it when everyone did.
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@p
To me it doesn't even bear any nostalgic value: I didn't own it when everyone did. I don't know how my parents did that, but I had a 80386-based computer when not every Soviet research instutute had PCs like that. And it was US-made — not the CPU, the whole box — a few kidnes got sold somewhere along the way probably 😂
@realman543 @iska
@p
I think I might be able to find some manuals it came with, but I have to dig pretty deep in my bookcase 🤔
The computer itself is long gone — I've also started upgrading mine with found and "donated" parts, at some point the PSU got fried and I couldn't afford a new one, so I donated the whole computer to my high school — I could use it there with their PSU. It wasn't a bad machine at the time, not the latest-greatest, but a 486 already with only the original case remaining — no one was against it as hardware in classrooms was even worse. But as the rest of the classroom were diskless machines booting from the network, this is where real fun began — mine had an HDD and could use removable media, eventually a friend of mine found an exploit for the NetWare they were using — no one was ever updating it: Internet wasn't yet a concern, machines were booting from the network and all files were written to and read from a network storage. We took complete control over the network!
I made a tiny TSR that was causing funny graphics glitches and that I could activate remotely, I've added it to a boot image the machines were using. People were genuinely panicking when that stuff started happening while they were doing their assignments and teachers were clueless too — it did look like the computers were malfunctioning. OMG, that was fun!!! 🤣
Our informatics teacher was the head teacher of school and she eventually started realising that we took over the network, but we were good in covering tracks and as it wasn't destructive — even compared to stealing balls from mice, we never got punished.
Now that I think about it, it was probably having access to technology earlier than my peers in my formative years, but not having things that were common is what got me into marginal CPU architectures 🤔 Same was with Macs — no one around me was using them, I don't think they were popular outside of publishing houses, but I was eager to embrace something non-Intel. Digital was on its deathbed already with SGI soon to follow, Sun was doing relatively well — you could find hardware from all of them at universities, but neither were even remotely affordable.
@realman543 @iska @m0xee
I think I might be able to find some manuals it came with, but I have to dig pretty deep in my bookcase 🤔
The computer itself is long gone — I've also started upgrading mine with found and "donated" parts, at some point the PSU got fried and I couldn't afford a new one, so I donated the whole computer to my high school — I could use it there with their PSU. It wasn't a bad machine at the time, not the latest-greatest, but a 486 already with only the original case remaining — no one was against it as hardware in classrooms was even worse. But as the rest of the classroom were diskless machines booting from the network, this is where real fun began — mine had an HDD and could use removable media, eventually a friend of mine found an exploit for the NetWare they were using — no one was ever updating it: Internet wasn't yet a concern, machines were booting from the network and all files were written to and read from a network storage. We took complete control over the network!
I made a tiny TSR that was causing funny graphics glitches and that I could activate remotely, I've added it to a boot image the machines were using. People were genuinely panicking when that stuff started happening while they were doing their assignments and teachers were clueless too — it did look like the computers were malfunctioning. OMG, that was fun!!! 🤣
Our informatics teacher was the head teacher of school and she eventually started realising that we took over the network, but we were good in covering tracks and as it wasn't destructive — even compared to stealing balls from mice, we never got punished.
Now that I think about it, it was probably having access to technology earlier than my peers in my formative years, but not having things that were common is what got me into marginal CPU architectures 🤔 Same was with Macs — no one around me was using them, I don't think they were popular outside of publishing houses, but I was eager to embrace something non-Intel. Digital was on its deathbed already with SGI soon to follow, Sun was doing relatively well — you could find hardware from all of them at universities, but neither were even remotely affordable.
@realman543 @iska @m0xee
@m0xEE @iska @m0xee @realman543 Ha, that's a shenanigan.
I was reading "Stealing the Network" and there was a clever prank, a bored admin would take over someone's tty remotely. What people would normally do is type some crazy message, but he would just watch their typing speed and when they were typing really quickly, he'd just occasionally hit backspace once, like they'd missed a key. Drove people crazy, they'd replace keyboards and move to different machines. (It is fictional, but some of the stories sound a little less fictional.)
> Digital was on its deathbed already with SGI soon to follow, Sun was doing relatively well — you could find hardware from all of them at universities, but neither were even remotely affordable.
Ah, I picked up a lunchbox SPARC for about $10. Had a Boeing asset tag scratched half-off, that ws a lucky thing about being here in LA: all the aerospace companies and JPL are here, and they all need a lot of computers. So if you stopped by a surplus store near their offices (or stopped by the dumpster behind their offices) you could usually get a full workstation for almost nothing, as long as you could deal with "State of the art...15 years ago." You probably remember, though, that a 15-year-old workstation was still usually better than a top-of-the-line desktop system. Eventually (~2002 or 03) got my hands on a 2-CPU UltraSPARC, 24" monitor, Type-5 keyboard and...no cables. So it took me months to track down a cable that would fit the Sun monitor. In the mean time, I had a little 90MHz Pentium sitting on the floor next to it, I booted a LOAF distro designed for serial terminals: it would boot directly into minicom. So I'd talk to the Sun machine like that.
I was reading "Stealing the Network" and there was a clever prank, a bored admin would take over someone's tty remotely. What people would normally do is type some crazy message, but he would just watch their typing speed and when they were typing really quickly, he'd just occasionally hit backspace once, like they'd missed a key. Drove people crazy, they'd replace keyboards and move to different machines. (It is fictional, but some of the stories sound a little less fictional.)
> Digital was on its deathbed already with SGI soon to follow, Sun was doing relatively well — you could find hardware from all of them at universities, but neither were even remotely affordable.
Ah, I picked up a lunchbox SPARC for about $10. Had a Boeing asset tag scratched half-off, that ws a lucky thing about being here in LA: all the aerospace companies and JPL are here, and they all need a lot of computers. So if you stopped by a surplus store near their offices (or stopped by the dumpster behind their offices) you could usually get a full workstation for almost nothing, as long as you could deal with "State of the art...15 years ago." You probably remember, though, that a 15-year-old workstation was still usually better than a top-of-the-line desktop system. Eventually (~2002 or 03) got my hands on a 2-CPU UltraSPARC, 24" monitor, Type-5 keyboard and...no cables. So it took me months to track down a cable that would fit the Sun monitor. In the mean time, I had a little 90MHz Pentium sitting on the floor next to it, I booted a LOAF distro designed for serial terminals: it would boot directly into minicom. So I'd talk to the Sun machine like that.
@p @realman543 @m0xEE @iska @m0xee
>Ah, I picked up a lunchbox SPARC for about $10...
Jealous just from reading that. I've been searching for an older SPARC box (1990-2000) for 2 years now and all I found were decommissioned Sun Fire servers from ~2006. Anything from around 2000 and older is almost unobtainable without importing it from Germany for ridiculous prices. The 486 sitting in the attic is likely one of the very few remaining working ones as everyone put those old computers to recycling centers.
>Ah, I picked up a lunchbox SPARC for about $10...
Jealous just from reading that. I've been searching for an older SPARC box (1990-2000) for 2 years now and all I found were decommissioned Sun Fire servers from ~2006. Anything from around 2000 and older is almost unobtainable without importing it from Germany for ridiculous prices. The 486 sitting in the attic is likely one of the very few remaining working ones as everyone put those old computers to recycling centers.
@phnt @iska @m0xEE @m0xee @realman543
> Jealous just from reading that.
Unfortunately, I no longer have them!
> Anything from around 2000 and older is almost unobtainable
I have some 4U UltraSPARCs from 1999. They were given to an education software company that had an employee that had a friend at Sun and then sat in their server room because it was way bigger than they needed and then by the time they could make use of it, their shit was all "in the cloud", and then when I got them, they were obsolete; most of them have never been powered on. CDs and license keys for Solaris and Websphere and Netscape's web server and everything, I think most of the cables, plus some 300GB SCSI disks. (300GB in only 4U!) I mostly use them to get yelled at for having them around, taking up space; I took them because they came with the server cabinet. You wanna figure out how to get them from here to wherever you are, they're yours.
> Jealous just from reading that.
Unfortunately, I no longer have them!
> Anything from around 2000 and older is almost unobtainable
I have some 4U UltraSPARCs from 1999. They were given to an education software company that had an employee that had a friend at Sun and then sat in their server room because it was way bigger than they needed and then by the time they could make use of it, their shit was all "in the cloud", and then when I got them, they were obsolete; most of them have never been powered on. CDs and license keys for Solaris and Websphere and Netscape's web server and everything, I think most of the cables, plus some 300GB SCSI disks. (300GB in only 4U!) I mostly use them to get yelled at for having them around, taking up space; I took them because they came with the server cabinet. You wanna figure out how to get them from here to wherever you are, they're yours.
@p @realman543 @m0xEE @iska @m0xee Thank you for the offer, but sadly I have to decline. At least $1K USD for shipping to Czech Republic, couple hundreds for import taxes (thanks EU) and market price for you isn't something I can afford now. Maybe sometime in the future, but I can't guarantee that.
@phnt @iska @m0xEE @m0xee @realman543 Ha, I don't know what market price is, don't worry about that; I do not need them and I wish that they had a good home. (Plus I get yelled at for having them.)
Shipping is a serious bitch, though. They're like 100lbs. each. There shouldn't be any taxes on something that was basically free, though I have no idea how Europe works. If you blow through LA and have a really massive suitcase, maybe you can just take it on the plane back.
Shipping is a serious bitch, though. They're like 100lbs. each. There shouldn't be any taxes on something that was basically free, though I have no idea how Europe works. If you blow through LA and have a really massive suitcase, maybe you can just take it on the plane back.
@p @realman543 @m0xEE @iska @m0xee
>I don't know what market price is, don't worry about that; I do not need them and I wish that they had a good home. (Plus I get yelled at for having them.)
Getting something this significant for "basically free" isn't something that I would ever allow.
>Shipping is a serious bitch, though. They're like 100lbs. each.
Yeah, the $1K was an approximate for two lighter (empty HDD bays) 4U servers.
>There shouldn't be any taxes on something that was basically free, though I have no idea how Europe works.
Customs use the total cost that would include shipping. EU is stupid when it comes to international shipping. To combat the zero import tax in EU, they have high taxes when shipping from outside EU (especially US and Japan.)
>If you blow through LA and have a really massive suitcase, maybe you can just take it on the plane back.
That is certainly an option, if I happen to be in/near LA. The plane tickets and extra luggage fee for that are basically the same as shipping it one-way.
>I don't know what market price is, don't worry about that; I do not need them and I wish that they had a good home. (Plus I get yelled at for having them.)
Getting something this significant for "basically free" isn't something that I would ever allow.
>Shipping is a serious bitch, though. They're like 100lbs. each.
Yeah, the $1K was an approximate for two lighter (empty HDD bays) 4U servers.
>There shouldn't be any taxes on something that was basically free, though I have no idea how Europe works.
Customs use the total cost that would include shipping. EU is stupid when it comes to international shipping. To combat the zero import tax in EU, they have high taxes when shipping from outside EU (especially US and Japan.)
>If you blow through LA and have a really massive suitcase, maybe you can just take it on the plane back.
That is certainly an option, if I happen to be in/near LA. The plane tickets and extra luggage fee for that are basically the same as shipping it one-way.
@phnt @iska @m0xEE @m0xee @realman543
> Getting something this significant for "basically free" isn't something that I would ever allow.
I got them for free. The ed tech company had the office next to the one that we were sub-leasing a room from gave it to me because they would otherwise have been paying to have it taken away. If you get to them before anyone else, I don't need any money, but if you do something cool, send code or pics.
> two lighter (empty HDD bays) 4U servers.
One of the really appealing things about these machines is also the source of their inconvenience: they are massive and the cases are steel. I think they could probably survive being used as cover during a shootout without even rebooting.
> Customs use the total cost that would include shipping.
Holy fucking shit.
> EU is stupid when it comes to international shipping.
Yeah, I had some terrible experiences trying to *donate* hardware to open-source OS hackers. Last time I did it, the guy had to drive to Barcelona twice, I had to send a fax to Spain, he ended up paying more than the hardware actually cost, I think I apologized to the guy once a day and I didn't go into their IRC channel again.
> That is certainly an option,
It'd have to be a really big suitcase. Like, full-length 4U boxes, lots of steel as mentioned. Try to carry two of them back with you and you will wear holes in your shoes just walking through the airport.
> Getting something this significant for "basically free" isn't something that I would ever allow.
I got them for free. The ed tech company had the office next to the one that we were sub-leasing a room from gave it to me because they would otherwise have been paying to have it taken away. If you get to them before anyone else, I don't need any money, but if you do something cool, send code or pics.
> two lighter (empty HDD bays) 4U servers.
One of the really appealing things about these machines is also the source of their inconvenience: they are massive and the cases are steel. I think they could probably survive being used as cover during a shootout without even rebooting.
> Customs use the total cost that would include shipping.
Holy fucking shit.
> EU is stupid when it comes to international shipping.
Yeah, I had some terrible experiences trying to *donate* hardware to open-source OS hackers. Last time I did it, the guy had to drive to Barcelona twice, I had to send a fax to Spain, he ended up paying more than the hardware actually cost, I think I apologized to the guy once a day and I didn't go into their IRC channel again.
> That is certainly an option,
It'd have to be a really big suitcase. Like, full-length 4U boxes, lots of steel as mentioned. Try to carry two of them back with you and you will wear holes in your shoes just walking through the airport.
> I don't know how my parents did that, but I had a 80386-based computer when not every Soviet research instutute had PCs like that. And it was US-made — not the CPU, the whole box
Ha, wow, that's kind of amazing. Do you remember any specifics about the machine? Like, make/model?
The first computer I really owned, the first one that was mine, that was a 386, but assembled piece by piece, kind of a garbage pile computer that I kept swapping parts into and out of. The computer I'm using right now is the "same" computer, though it's the Ship of Theseus.
behold_the_ship_of_theseus.png